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April 03, 2008


Hi Dave and friends,

i was doing a little medical reading tonight on gun violence, and I came across this 2008 study from the Journal of Trauma (a major journal).  It may have some limited value, but the line that made me think of Dave was this one:
"The primary goal of the analysis was to test the hypotheses that having a disproportionately high number of GSWs [gunshot wounds] or having GSWs in a disproportionately high number of anatomic regions is associated with negative health outcomes. "
I'd be happy to email the PDF of the journal article, should Dave get excited about learning more.  Or you can find it yourself. 
Carr, B.G. et al., 2008. Outcomes related to the number and anatomic placement of gunshot wounds. The Journal of trauma, 64(1), p.197-202; discussion 202-3.
Rick Stahlhut,


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Bang - first?

No doubt a government-funded study.

gun shot wounds are bad for your health? but they leave such cool scars!

I ADORE GSWs! Didn't they open for the Grateful Dead?

What? GSWs can be hazardous to your health? Without that pioneering research, we probably would never have known that.

More funding please.


So what would be considered a proportionate number of GSWs or affected anatomic areas?

Damn, if I were still at my old job with Henry Ford Hospital I'm sure that volume would be right upstairs in the library ...

I saw GSW when they toured with Sucking Chest Wound in '88. Opening act was Projectile Vomiting. Very cool.

Don't worry, Aunt Shelly. Dave's kidding about Miami.
Nothing will ever explain Miami.

Good luck getting volunteers for THAT study.

Annie, that was Guns 'N' Hoses.

I kinda figure one right between the eyes would be enough of a health hazard, but I'm NO doctor.

I've heard that GSW's are a great form of birth control.

Can I say "New York Times" in a family-oriented blog? had an article on a recent 19 shot survivor.

I like the "Massive Necrotizing Fasciitis" department in the Journal of Trauma. The department has better comics than the New York Times.

It would also be helpful to know what they used for a placebo group. Perhaps with those subjects the researchers just shoved bullets against their chest without actually inserting them? (Thus simulating a common procedure among Miami hoods who are just playing around, I would assume. "Ha ha dawg, just funnin' wit yous ...")

Gunshot wound = 3 syllables
GSW = 5 syllables

I thought acronyms were supposed to shorten words.

I wonder, if conversely, not getting a GSW is good for your health and overall well being? I think I will try it and see if it works.

An article in the same issue of the journal came to the conclusion that over a six year period, most German air ambulance crashes occured in the last minute of flight.

GDogg! no, no, no.

Acronyms only shorten space, not time. If you are peppered with GSW, there is less space for more, non-duplicative gunshot wounds. However, there is plenty of time to look.

*quietly volunteers GDogg for next GSW study*

exactly who determines what 'disportionately high' is when it comes to gun shot wounds? i'm thinking one is more than enough for anyone.

Hang on, I'm reloadin'

ww - I think 'disproportionately high' means 'above the neck.' Although we could do a study and find out.

Annie, I am sure the Rae Carruth would not agree that GSWs are an effective form of birth control.

*sneaks up to change the e in the to an at for that

Hell, this Blog couldn't exist without acronyms IYKWIM AITYD. NTTAWRT. Indeed that's why it is the general consensus here that GSW WBAGNFARB ...

If that doesn't make it into the "Annals of Improbable Research", I'll be VERY disappointed.

Baron, I meant as a preventative measure.

Circuit7, you should carry a spare magazine or a speed-loader. Always Be Prepared!

Yeah, Circuit7, if you need help converting to fully auto, give me or wicked a jingle.

And don't forget, the defendants creatng GSW's have more rights than the legally declared dead victims receiving any said GSW. Page 203, discussion over.

LMAO Annie. I love that video/song. I actually saw him perform that live when he opened for Brad Paisley.

*wonders if they'll do a study on machetes other lethal weapons and how they affect your health*

Toby Keith, Rodney Atkins, and Blake Shelton all together. I'd wear my Stetson to that one.

Siouxie, i see a government grant in your immediate future.

Me, too. Especially since your favorite machete is fully automatic.

All I have to say is: bang, bang, bang...ow...

It is a known fact that GSWs are a major cause of lead poisoning.

only if you don't remove the bullets, slyeyes. and it takes such a long time. better to just hit your target and get it over with quickly.

so when it comes to g.s.w's the key factor is location, location, location?

Many years ago, when "my" hospital first became a trauma center, local healthcare bean-counters determined that being located near an expressway was bad for revenues, but gangs were ok: GSW victims tend to get better or die quickly, while vehicular crush injuries tend to use lots of resources and stay for many uncompensated weeks. I imagine disproportionate GSW victims would be even more cost-effective.

*Considers floating idea of NRA/HHS plan to mandate handguns for First Responders*
- - -
*Decides against it*

not always insom, sometimes luck plays a major role. i got hit in the 'kill zone' and i'm still here. the size and type of the projectile is very important.

Yikes, wicked! You are one tough broad!

(we're glad you're still with us too)

Our preliminary research on stab woulds shows a positive correlation between depth of wound and death within the next fiscal year. This correlation was particularly relevant when the wounds centered around vital organs or surface arteries. We are currently examining our findings, and we will publish our conclusions presently, but first were need another big Federal Grant.

I have a scar on my hip that looks like a GSW, it gives me an air of mystery, I therefore refuse to divulge what really caused the scar.


*waiting for Mot to 'splain'*

tough has nothing to do with it, a .223 is no match for a pi$$ed off woman.

Sooz, you're in for a long wait:-) I borrowed El's zipper for my mouth.

Sadly, statements like that are the bane of research scientists. My coworkers and I were discussing the other day that you couldn't write "The sky is blue" in a paper without referencing a study that proves the sky is blue. We were joking - mostly.

*makes mental note to NEVER piss wicked off*

Mot, you are such a tease!

I've learnt from the master, IYKWIM.


Just popped in to look for my *zip*. I looked through my zipper files and couldn't find a permission slip.

Also, when I was a CDA I learned from my clients that if you don't have insurance, they won't remove the bullet, if it's not in a life threatening spot. At least that's how it is here in CA.

knife fight with a midget, Mot?

When did it become news that negative outcomes are associated with gunshot wounds

Alien implant is my guess ...

Even if the bullet isn't life threatening, it can be uncomfortable. For instance, body bullets get cold really fast. It's a weird feeling.

Its not a question of shooting yourself in the foot.
Its not a question of working your way up 'til it gets painful.

The question is: how fast you can reload?

*damn, forgot to change the name again ...!*

All I'm prepared to say is that I was engaged in an activity that wasn't exactly above board at the time.

so you were the guy that was caught having sex with his picnic table? i'd have thought that the splinters would be hell.

*snork* @ ww!

WW, are you implying that I'm hung like a patio umbrella?

My partner was shot in the chest with a Glaser bullet...they're designed to disintigrate into countless pieces after hitting the target.

Even twenty years later, every once in a while a tiny piece pops out of his skin.

you say that like it would be a bad thing, Mot.

What, no mention of Jack Bauer in that report?

That's true, Annie. But if you don't have medical insurance they do not care.

Sad, but true.

now that is one tough dude, afkat.

♩ "Under Mot's ☂ - ella...ella" ♩

I remember working at a conference several years ago. The speaker recieved a 40k grant to study if certain audio tones would keep fish away from underwater intake pipes. Yes, cash for fish hearing tests. All I could picture was fish wearing earphones, raising their fin if they heard the tone. I had to leave the room laughing (this was years before I knew the technical term- "snorking").

Whoops, that was an unlabeled OT

There's a classic line form The Magnificent Seven when the mexican peasant says to Yul Brunner, "We should ask that man over there, he must be one tough hombre with all those scars." Brunner replies "No, we need the man who gave him all those scars."

I read the blog often but never comment. After getting the below link from a friend and seeing other amazing medical research happening, I decided to post:


sara's link.

Siouxie, they're taking Heat Breaks at the tennnis tourney there. Is it that hot?

So, um, Wayne...

WAYNE! *stamps foot*

Don't leave us in suspenders -- what was the outcome of the fish hearing tests? Did the tones keep the fishies away from the intake pipes?


Expiring Inquiring minds want to know.

It's hot, El. I'm assuming that it gets a heck of a lot hotter down by Key Biscayne.

Alan Seitz: Oh, don't worry, Ivan. It's just your foot. See, this is what we at the bureau call an extremity shot. Generally, the victim survives. They don't do so well with what we call a torso shot.
Pat Greer: So what do you think, Ivan? Would you like to experience a torso shot?

Thanks Sara for the link. I wonder what alien planet inhabitants will think when they receive the Tv signal billions of years from now and see Oprah? Not the pregnant guy, Oprah.

For the GSW Crime Scene Recreators who need additional information sources to see why some medical emergencies are so expensive to treat.

As the guy who wrote Dave about this, I think I owe it to the paper's authors to clarify a bit. Although that one line from the paper was really a scream, there are actually a few decent tidbits along the way.

For instance, none of the people who took a hit to the extremities (alone) died, which is interesting, since you can lose a lot of blood into the thigh. Of course, only the people who made it to the ED were in the study, so maybe that's the reason. Plus the stats on locations of wounds was potentially helpful.

So the paper wasn't useless, which is unfortunately the impression I gave in my email. When they pitched the study as a hypothesis test, rather than straight-up descriptive study, that's how they got stuck writing that deadly line. On the other hand, I appreciate the "sky is blue" [ref] problem listed above.

Regardless -- I did love the line. Made my night (which tells you something about my wild lifestyle).

Rick, our lives are just as exciting. ;-)

For instance, none of the people who took a hit to the extremities (alone) died

This past December, my nephew was shot in the face with a double-barreled sawed off shotgun that THANK GOD was loaded with bird shot instead of buck shot. In the ambulance, he asked the EMTs if he was going to die. They told him that the GSW vics who die don't talk as much as he was.

ps, except for losing his left eye and nightmares, he's doing OK.

pps; the cops think it was a robbery attempt or a gang thing since word on the street is the shooter thought he was a cop

ppps. Dick Cheney has an alibi.

Oh my, sly! Thank goodness he's OK. I wonder if they
ever caught the thugs who did that.

I'm Rick's wife, and I can attest to our wild lifestyle. I mean, that line made both our nights.

Of course, I'm an entomology geek, so I really get into that scientific sense of humor. I wonder now if I can get funding for a study that shows that incurring a large number of wasp stings on widely distributed body parts is positively correlated with experiencing extreme pain and swelling at multiple sites.

*waves* to the wild Stalhuts!

Rude and unthinking thought; losing nightmares is a good thing, right?

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