CREEPING FASCISM IN MEMPHIS

Now they want to take away the fundamental human right -- specifically mentioned in the Constitution -- to flash the Jumbotron.

(Thanks to Jeff Meyerson, who notes that alcohol may have been involved)

Comments

[AmerInParis]

I'd almost forgotten how prudish Americans are ;-) I doubt they'd flutter an eyelash over here. After all, there are naked female breasts in ads posted on the bus stops, for one.

I sure enjoy the lingerie ads...

[crossgirl]

*flashes*

[Steve Haller]

I hate vids that are "safe for work"...

[chaz]

*gazes on with admiration* Thanks Crossgirl...I needed that

[chaz]

try http://www.ztunnel.com/ to get past office blockage....

[Hammond Rye]

Applauds CG!

[Davem_va]

Dave, you always were a strict Constructionist.

[daisymae]

snork @ cg

Where's the pictures?

[Annie Where-but-here]

*flashes*

[Edward]

Her arrest may be void due to the fact she listed her occupation as "sailing captain." As anyone familiar with admiralty law knows, the raising of her shirt was merely "flying the colors." Her nakedness is of secondary importance only.

[daisymae]

Congrats, Annie the Published (I missed the Xmas Eve thread, so I'm catching up).

[Annie Where-but-here]

Amer - a couple of years ago two women smooched on the LA Dodger 'Fan cam.' They were thrown out. You can just imagine the uproar and ensuing corporate apologies.

[Mot The Hoople]

There have been disturbing reports that there's a new international game where young women are betting that they can fill the Jumbotron. It's become the new measure of endowment. What's really disturbing is that young men are beginning to get into the game as well. In fact, there have been discussions relating to the orientation of the screen, some young men feel that the screen should be mounted edgewise in that it should be higher rather than wider, of course the young lasses feel that that would severely inhibit the revelation of their glorious assets.

[jon]

I'm with Steve! We want the full video!

[AmerInParis]

"Amer - a couple of years ago two women smooched on the LA Dodger 'Fan cam.' They were thrown out. You can just imagine the uproar and ensuing corporate apologies.

Posted by: Annie Where-but-here | 10:42 AM on December 26, 2007"

I don't know what to type that really explains how that makes me feel...

[AmerInParis]

Although, it does perk me up that there was an uproar over it! ;-)

[chaz]

thats an interesting way of doing "the wave"

[Annie Where-but-here]

Not fair, Mot. Most people have widescreens now, and you guys over there are cheating by using the metric system.

Amer - it was an awful scene, but ended well. I'm glad the story came out. The two women happened to be strong and classy enough to handle the publicity well, good and bad, and hopefully a few people learned that it's ok to do that. And no, guys, they didn't do that just to turn you on. They did it because they LIKE it.

[Jeff Meyerson]

Yes, congratulations on the story, Annie.

And no, guys, they didn't do that just to turn you on. They did it because they LIKE it.

Posted by: Annie Where-but-here | 11:09 AM on December 26, 2007

So, think of the "turning us on" part as a bonus, right?

;)

[gjd]

You tell 'em, Annie.

[Jessica R.]

So the boobs in the crowd were better than the boobs on the floor!

[gjd]

*flash*

[gjd]

*snork* @ Jessica

[Annie Where-but-here]

*snorks* to gjd & Jessica

[Hammond Rye]

F
l
a
s
h
e
s

[AmerInParis]

"*flash*

Posted by: gjd | 11:22 AM on December 26, 2007"

Reminds me of Gort waking up.

[gjd]

You okay, Hammie?

[Annie Where-but-here]

*waves @ Hammie!!!*
*worries about Hammie....*

[judi]

guess i'm a prude. i find it pretty objectifying and if i had my kids at the game, i'd be upset. i know it's weird, but i just think it's unpleasant when women do this. it's a childish way of getting (male) attention for the incredible accomplishment having boobs, and it's one more nail in the coffin for women having any sense of pride or value beyond mindless bimboes that want to be used by men. reading too much into it? i dunno, would you want your mom or your sister to do it?

it's not the sight of the breasts but the nature of the exposure that really bugs me. i don't think women need any help being considered useless [except for sex] and interchangeable.

would you want a man to flash the jumbotron *hehe*? oh no, wait, that would be a crime. so women not only objectify themselves but it's not even a crime to expose themselves! we don't even rate! it's just a silly harmless little fluff thing to do when women do it. but it's a crime when men do it.

okay okay ;) never mind. i'm hopelessly outdated and ridiculous. i know. but it pisses me off, how hard women have worked to become "equal" and we shoot ourselves in the foot - or boob - doing this crap.

[Siouxie]

judi, you've got a point (or two) (heh!)

FLASHES

[Hammond Rye]

Women are NOT interchangeable. Heck, they're not even returnable after they've been used.

*Goes to corner and awaits beatings*

[O the U(manity)]

I agree with your main premise, judi ... I don't have any sisters, and Ma passed away a number of years ago, but I have three daughters and two granddaughters ... sorry this is not funny ...

[gjd]

Judi, while I tend to agree with you for the most part, as I personally would prefer to keep the girls under cover, some females say it is a liberating thing to be able to go topless the same as men do.

I guess I can see both sides of this.

Regardless of which side any of us agree with, Hammie does need to be beaten. Even though it seems that he is looking forward to it.

[Meditrina]

Well spoken, written, put judi. I whole heartedly agree.

I am one of very few females who left NOLA withOUT any beads.

[Annie Where-but-here]

judi's right - a guy flashes and it's obscene because it's considered a threat, but a woman flashes and it's a harmless, silly attention-getter. Because we're property and don't count.

Of course you're not outdated, judi - you simply have more self-respect and class than that bimbo ever will. I gave up trying to win women 'equality' long ago- there are too many bimbos out there offsetting what I do. Now I just try to be a better example for my kids.

[Mot The Hoople]

Annie, keep up the great work:-)

[Siouxie]

Annie, me too.

That's why I gave up flashing.

j/k!!

I just strip every now and then.

j/k!!

*SMACKS Hammie*

[Noob]

/sarcasm/ I'm so proud of my adopted hometown for regularly being featured on the blog. /end sarcasm/

Actually, I'm surprised it doesn't show up here more often. *sigh*

[Annie Where-but-here]

*Smacks Hammie*
Thanks, Mot.
Noob - I think Memphis would show up here more often it they had literate people to write all the stupid stuff down.

[Jollymon]

judi,

I know I probably shouldn't say anything because Annie and Siouxie are so quick to wield a machete, but...

Women objectify themselves every day. I'll bet there aren't many females on this blog that hasn't put on a pair of pants, turned their husband/significant other and said "Honey, do these pants make me look smart?"

Just sayin'.

[DavCat]

Here's a *FLASHER* for the Judi and the Blogettes to enjoy.
May not be safe for those at work!

http://www.eventbrite.com/img/logos/76718467.jpg?r=18486

(maybe someone can activate the link for me)

[crossgirl]

here is davcat's activated link

[Punkin's Girls]

We plead the 45th. EEE.

[Meanie the Blue]

And a new meaning is given to flash drives. And to arrested development.

[Jeff Meyerson]

Agree with you in general, judi, but as I pointed out, as in so many of these cases alcohol was involved.

I've been to New Orleans in the summer, far from Mardi Gras, and guys on Bourbon Street still yell for women to flash and they do it.

*sigh*

[Scivitri]

It's interesting how any simple act can be interpreted many different ways.

Did she flash the camera as an act against equality for women? Very doubtful.

Was she arrested for damaging the social position of women? Depends on your point of view, but not really.

Are those concerns valid? Yes. But they're not the only issues. As Amer pointed out, this wouldn't even have raised eyebrows in other cultures.

She most likely did it for personal thrill. Exhibitionism, regardless of the exact "legality", is great for excitement/adrenaline/etc. She was arrested because someone with too much power for their position reacted, and justified it later. Which is the greater wrong?

Should she have done it? Should she have been arrested? Should she be successfully prosecuted? These are deeper social questions. But which is the greater freedom? Should she be prohibited from doing it (and why) or should men be allowed to do it (socially, as well as legally)? But then, it wasn't that long ago we saw articles about attempts to make men wear shirts/tank-tops in public. What are we fighting for, equal treatment or better treatment? Better than we have now, or better overall?

The freedom to do something is not the requirement to do it. And equality and liberty are not remotely the same things.

[An0nymo0us1]

When I was about 11 or 12, I went to a Puff Daddy and the Family concert. They were showing folks on the jumbotron between set changes. One girl (couldn't have been older than 16) eagerly flashed the camera, and they showed the clip repeatedly during the subsequent set changes. I hope alcohol wasn't involved, but it was sad(for her) and irresponsible (for the Tacoma Dome).

[Adult Delinquent]

I just have to say that I don't think the sight of a woman's breasts is really going to warp anyone or cause the decay of moral values....

Unless they were freakishly large boobs.... maybe.

[Adult Delinquent]

I just have to say that I don't think the sight of a woman's breasts is really going to warp anyone or cause the decay of moral values....

Unless they were freakishly large boobs.... maybe.

[Adult Delinquent]

Wow... wonder why I got a double post on that. I didn't have to go through the BOT this time.

I think the use of the word "boobs" just excited the BLOG..

[Meditrina]

Yes, Boobs excite the blog. But it would appear that the word excites the bot, as well. ;-P

[GungaDan]

"Unless they were freakishly large boobs.... maybe.'
AD, made me spit beer and the wife asked; "Wut?" hehe, thanks

[Meanie the Blue]

Thanks, Scivitri, for posting a thoughtfully non-humorous comment in a non-ranting manner.

My guess is that her flash was likely motivated by nothing more than wanting to give a mild thrill (with the equally likely "benefit" of fermented inhibition-reducers), and not a social statement.

But if it were a social statement, was it an appropriate situation? My opinion is "no", given that it was a popular sporting event where many children were sure to be attending. Challenge me and my culture? Please, I don't mind. But keep my kids out of it. Should she have been arrested, if for no other reason than as a deterrent to future repetition by herself or copycats? Again, no. Indsicretion shouldn't be made a crime. I may not like what she did if I were a parent with kids witnessing it, but surely it's better to sit them down (the kids, not her boobs) and explain the pros and cons, the rights and lefts wrongs than to make her a criminal.

[GungaDan]

Forgive me, I am just not getting how or why she is so wrong. Surly, I don't get why law enfocrcement was involved. As always Meanie, your a good guy. I am just a lil slow. learn me.

[Adult Delinquent]

I've seen streakers cause less of a stir.... It doesn't make a lot of sense.

(And yes, I've streaked before. Now I wonder if I inadvertently led to the collapse of western civilization as we know it).

If so, I apologize.

[CJrun]

I'm very ambivalent about this whole issue. If the BlogGals would all please flash the Blog (cg excluded; thank you for your submittal), I will see if I can be more decisive.

[Meditrina]

Nice try, CJ.

*smacks CJ for Sioux*

[Meanie the Blue]

Dan, if she were making a social statement, that would be a somewhat provocative act. Maybe it's just me, but I like to keep a reasonably close eye on what my kids are exposed to, and be prepared to address whatever questions such exposure generates. In an open society, that's not always possible, but I still wish people would respect others' situation and think before they acted. I wouldn't arrest the lady for her inconsideration, but I would hope for better discretion.

Seeing randomly exposed t!ts wouldn't scare me (far from it), but as Judi said, there's an element of exploitation that I wish my wife and daughters weren't faced with, and the imbalance between what is alright for men to show and what is alright for women to show is just another aspect of a culture that is simply not equal. It may seem relatively innocent with a boob-flash that lasts a few seconds, but the inequality goes way beyond that, and the boob-flash is just a reminder that society has a long way to go.

As a pure lark,

[Meanie the Blue]

"As a pure lark..." was supposed to have been deleted. I apologize for the inadvertent flash.

[Adult Delinquent]

What about mooning? Is that morally depraved too?

It's so hard to comprehend the constantly changing whims of the thought police.

[GungaDan]

"As a pure lark," lol, all good and thanks.

[gjd]

(And yes, I've streaked before. Now I wonder if I inadvertently led to the collapse of western civilization as we know it).

If so, I apologize.

Posted by: Adult Delinquent | 04:51 PM on December 26, 2007

Well, NOW we know who to blame it on. Sheesh, AD! *grin*

[Meanie the Blue]

AND ... my comment was in no way meant as "education". Strictly opinion.

[Adult Delinquent]

Yes, gjd. I was extremely naughty....

Sigh.... I guess we both know what that means.

[gjd]

AD, I think part of the point is the audience of various exposures. Meanie, has a very good point. There are things that I personally don't give a darn about seeing that I don't want my kids to see at their ages.

Will seeing a "mooning" corrupt them for life? Probably not. But that doesn't mean that I want to be someplace and suddenly be seeing somebody's hind end.

Now, different people have different comfort zones for this. I think that is why there was concern about where this happened. It is reasonable to think of a sporting event as a "safe" place. If you take your kids to Mardi Gras, well, then expect them to see boobs.

Clear as mud?

[gjd]

*SNORK* @ AD. 'Tisn't my job. ;-)

[Adult Delinquent]

Absolutely, gjd!

Do they still have Mardi Gras? I thought New Orleans blew away or something.

[Igloo]

Meanie,
I agree with most of what you and others have said on this subject, but, I object to the word "exploitation". The only "exploitation" that took place was by the local/national Media, including this blog.
The woman in question may have committed an indescretion, but that is all. I don't believe what she did is any different than people painting their faces in team colors; or dressing up as hogs. These semi-crossdressing [pigs?] may also be offensive to some and cause questioning by children. That is the nature of life.
Let us all remember that Memphis is Graceland; "The Peabody" and Pampered ducks. (You should stay at The Peabody at least once, and watch the march of the ducks to the fountain; Mud? Island. Beale street, with some of the best BBQ that has ever passed your lips.
One last note. I am 61, but I still remember my teens and twentys. The primary difference between then and now...ubiquitous cameras and the internet. Thank God these were not available in the late 1960's. Had they been, I would have some real explaining to do.

[gjd]

Excellent point, igloo. Most "indiscretions" pass in a moment. The digital memory is what lives on and on and...

[Doc Rick]

I've never seen a woman expose her assets on a Jumbotron, but the language some people use is unbelievable. It's bad enough to go to an Astros game and have drunken idiot business guy and his loser buddies flinging F-bombs like Sam Kennison in his prime, but it's really frightening when you hear those same tirades coming from parents at a little league event. Give me a brief shot of a boob any day.

[Doc Rick]

*jumps up and adds "some" before "drunken". I really need to start proofreading my posts dangit*

[GungaDan]

Way off topic, but way back when, an Ex angry at me posted my profile on a gay man's sight. Cracked me up until some one emailed it to Carol. Power of the internet.

Yup, there are pics and nope I ain't posting the link. hehe.

[Cheryl Howard]

And to add yet another perspective.

If men can paint their chests with team colors and attend games topless. Then why can’t females?

And I’m not saying we all start “objectifying” ourselves. But why do we deem it objectifying?

I’ve been hustled out of a mall while discreetly breastfeeding my son, under cover of nursing blankets. By a Security Guard that I questioned with “have you ever read a Playboy? These breasts, this here is their purpose. Alright? Not your entertainment.” They are simply a vessel.

Men get breast cancer, women get breast cancer. We both have nipples. Really chubby men have man breasts. All women have breasts.

I guess I mean to ask—why are only a woman’s breasts considered objectionable in public places? Why? It is a totally stoopid double standard in my humble opinion. Akin to the shameful practices of women flashing their ankles a hundred years ago. Spare me.

I say anything a guy can do, I outta be able to do. And legally.

I hope she sues.

If for no other reason than I don't want to see some fat guys man breasts either.

[gjd]

Doc, that is also a good point and I agree with you.

Cheryl, Security made you leave for feeding your baby? I got looks at times, but no one ever said anything negative to me.

[Cheryl Howard]

gjd I should add that that son is now 19. So times have changed a bit.

And I think they should change a bit more. You know, to the point that no one does a double take at a mother feeding a baby. Sheesh.

Someday our great grandkids are going to totally laugh at this generation. I hope.

[CJrun]

Well, I'm very disappointed at the lack of 'evidence' forthcoming upon which to base a judgement.

I agree with Iggy on the cameras; were it not for the cameras and jumbotron, in the first place, there would be no story. If the gal in question had flashed the set of the Today Show, no one would have known, due to the 7-second delay. If the operators of the jumbotron can't control what they display, put them on a delay. They are the ones that are selling that imagery as content to their audiences.

Probably to relieve the boredom of audiences not watching something that is actually interesting...like pointy ball and my beloved Jacksonville Ja....

"STFU, CJ, and go get a fresh beer!"

ok

[ScottMGS]

I find this an appropriately funny comment. I *snork* every time I read it. I don't think I'll be traveling to any nude beaches in Ohio in the next couple months, however.

[Igloo]

How many of our Male bloggers feel objectivied (new word?) by Davcats link. I do not now, nor have I ever had that kind of body. No regrets. No worry. In fact, I never had the inclination to look like that. But am I pi33ed that it is out there? Not in the least bit. I couldn't care less.

[judi]

welll i must say this is a great discussion :) and i agree with pretty much everyone so far. really! it's hard to see WHY it's objectifying (except that, given our current societal rules, it IS) and it's hard to see why it matters at all (i don't have any problem at all with women breastfeeding in public places, and in fact did it quite a few times myself) yet also think the time and the place makes a huge difference: a woman who flashes in New Orleans at mardi gras or who wears only paint in Key West at halloween is different from a woman who flashes at a basketball game, imho.

[Meanie the Blue]

Cheryl, Igloo - if there were no cameras or jumbotron, there would have been no flash, nor a story. The lady was looking to give a thrill precisely because it was a defiant thing to do, a sort of nose-thumbing at the culture, except with nipples. Guys flashing their boobs is another kind of thing, still ugly but without the sexual connotations and, though it may be inequitable, without the taboos and therefore not an act of defiance, just stupidity. I grant that the taboos are unfair, and I would rather my kids not see drunken men flashing either. But it still changes the equation if kids are present, in my mind.

Yes, society exploits breasts, for immense commercial profit. It appears that guys are being more and more objectized too, but there's still a major gulf between male and female exploitation. We exploit sexual humor here, but we are an adult forum, and we guys here tolerate and enjoy having ladies do the same. It may be purely juvenile, but here it's at least equitably juvenile.

Speaking of juvenile: Booger!

[CJrun]

*breaks out the BlogKid Sharpies and pretty-much scrawls over the entire thread*

[Igloo]

judi,
I would rather argue with "Ole Scratch" His-self than you, but...
Mardi Gras, Key West, as venues for flashing, are no different than Mempis. In all cases, I would proffer that alcohol is/was involved and time and place are/were immaterial. I can assure you, that in 2008, something similar will occur at the above locations, as well as other yet to be discovered places.

[ScottMGS]

My take is that it is the level of privilege that men enjoy in this society that makes Davcat's/Igloo's link less objectifying, less oppressive in this society than a woman's boobs being flashed on a Jumbotron.

[gjd]

Ooh. Pretty, CJ. Will you share your colours with me? I got glitter glue!

[daisymae]

you say potato, I say potahto,
you say tomato, I say tomahto,

...and will somebody please give CJ a beer...

[GungaDan]

Barry Beers, blogger lager, all around! Last one sober has to spell check. (OK, I'll stop)

[Eleanor]

Having been to the beaches in the south of France, I can say that women of all shapes and sizes go topless and no one looks, except perhaps American tourists.. And in Munich at the EnglishGarten (sp?) on a national holiday most people were nude, playing volleyball or lying on the grass reading or walking or whatever.

So is it the culture that makes it what it is?

[Noob]

Igloo, it is Mud Island - a bit of land rescued from the Mississippi River and forever in danger of being reclaimed by it, therefore, making it some of the highest priced real estate in town. Go figure.

Personally, I agree with Igloo. And I think it pays to keep in mind that equal and fair are often two different things: You can give a child and a grown man each an equal amount of food, but it is not necessarily fair to them both. Fair would be enough to satisfy hunger. If you feed them both a child's serving, that's unfair to the man, and if you feed them both the adult's serving, it is unfair to expect the child to eat it all.

I could likely write a book on this, so I will stop. :)

*Hands CJ extra sharpies.* You may need them.

[AuntieM]

I can see the exploitation angle here, but agree that the female in question was probably just drunk and stupid. Kids were there, but I'm betting that the parents needed to be more concerned about the foul language and lack of manners of the people around them more than a quick flash of b00bs.

America has a culture where you can be as violent as you want in TV and movies, but nudity is scandalous. I'd rather see flashers than a triple bloody murder. That being said, a seven-second delay on the Jumbotron might be a sensible idea.

[Cheryl Howard]

*flashes Auntie*

And I agree completely .

[Siouxie]

*flashes Cheryl flashing Auntie*

I totally agree. Everyone's got some really good points. The women mostly, but we all know that. ;-)

[Igloo]

Eleanor is so right. It is the culture.
I've been in Angola, Vietnam, Afghanistan and the Middle East. In each of these countries, culture determined the dress code for male and female.
If you look at American History, prohibition is a continuing theme; Alcohol, drugs, dress, smoking, fat-foods, nudity, ad infinitum. What next? I have no clue. But I can assure you, there is a next; and what comes next will blind-side many people.

[GungaDan]

*flashes Cheryl flashing Auntie* flashes Sio. Whut? just wanted to join in.

[AuntieM]

*shrieks with laughter and points*
*wipes tears from eyes*
Sorry. I'll join in the fun.
*flashes everyone at the Blog Bar*

[GungaDan]

Last one not flashing is fully dressed!

[gjd]

*scrolls up to GungaDan's 8:14*
*nods*

Yep. Alcohol is involved.

*flashes everyone flashing everybody else*

*tried to convince all that I am young and perky and flashworthy*

*realizes I already mentioned breastfeeding, so gives up*

[gjd]

Can I leave my Hello Kitty slippers on? It's cold here.

[AuntieM]

*turns on space heater*
Help yourself, gjd. I'm keeping my mock crocs on!

[GungaDan]

Ayup gid. No foolin you

[Wes S.]

Humph. There's a whole lotta flashing going on here.

I thought this was Dave Barry's Blog. Did I accidentally log on to Voyeurweb instead?