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September 25, 2004



Good name for a rock band.


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Gordon Lightfoot!!!

How cool is this!!!

Color me happy. :)

*grabs her box of crayolas and runs to El's*

strip off please. you didn't request your clothing be colored too.

I'm suspecting that our techweasels did the same, wolfie. I just might have to drag this thing home every day so they can't get at it.

I can't get any work done while I'm answering phones and handing out otc drugs to students, so during those rare slow moments I like to play solitaire. Spider solitaire.

But I backed up this whole laptop on my OWN external hard drive, so I'll just have to restore it, won't I.

The games disappeared from one of the computers here quite a while ago...

And I can't find them on the computer at home. They are there, but they aren't in my user account for some reason.

Peach yogurt is icky. Much as I love peaches, peach icecream, yogurt or candy is icky.

ROFL, jamester. You have that right. :)

My conscience doesn't even let any good dreams get through. Anything that looks like it could be getting good...I wake up.

I have wireless in my apt, so I can blog from the living room, kitchen, or two of the bedrooms. YAY! for living in a small apartment with no yard or porch, unless you count the parking lot outside my bedroom window.

Thanks for the nice early birthday wish, MOTW! It made this icky sick day a little better.

I like peach yogurt. In fact, I had one for breakfast this morning, along with the last of the homemade strawberry muffins that Giant Frog had baked over the weekend.

I've translated about half of my stepmother's play into French already, but I don't think I'll work on it today. Brain... not... working... must... have... tea...

I may just lose at Civilization IV again.

Today's musical line-up:

A Bluegrass family affair.
Buckwheat Zydeco
Propulsive party music with strains of rock and R&B married to traditional and contemporary zydeco.
Asleep at the Wheel
Western swing
Sonny Landreth
Blues slide guitarist with an unorthodox guitar playing style.
Chatham County Line
North Carolina traditional bluegrass sound with pithy songwriting.
Chris Smither
Blues revival, guitarist, singer and songwriter.
BeauSoleil avec Michael Doucet
Bettye LaVette
Soul and R&B.
Hot Rize
Eclectic Colorado progressive bluegrass band.
Al Green
If you don't know Al Green, then I hope you're here just for the free cookies. *grin*

There's cookies? *gets all perkie*

I have wireless at home. I can werk/blog from anywhere in the house, including any one of the multiple bedrooms, the formal living or dining room, the family room, the kitchen, any of the multiple bathrooms, the basement, the patio, the garage or the driveway.

If I really want to, I can even use it across the street.

YAY for me too!

Mmmm...cookies! I really need to do some baking...

Two playlists today...since I forgot to post Tuesdays.

Tuesday 10-3-06 All Request Lunch Hour
Tec report
“Margaritaville” Jimmy Buffett
“You’ve Got A Friend” James Taylor
“Some Guys Have All The Luck” Rod Stewart
“Voices Carry” Til Tuesday
“Mama Told Me Not To Come” Three Dog Night
“Magic Power” Triumph
“More Than Words” Extreme
“Let ‘em In” Paul McCartney
“100 Years” Five For Fighting

Wednesday 10-3-06 All Request Lunch Hour
“Strawberry Fields Forever” Beatles
“Jumpin’ Jack Flash” Rolling Stones
“Stay” Maurice Williams
“Come Monday” Jimmy Buffett
“Is This Love” Whitesnake
“Soak Up The Sun” Sheryl Crow
“Lotta Love” Nicolette Larson
“Can’t Get Enough Of Your Love” Barry White
“Crazy Little Thing Called Love” Queen
“Sundown” Gordon Lightfoot
“Thank You” Led Zepplin
“Wild World” Mr. Big
“Cuts Like A Knife” Bryan Adams

Me three!

Marie.. I'm not that much of a swearer - damn occasionally and hell as a comparitive (that's a hell of a lot of jello in the hot tub, etc..)
I would consider b!tch an insult (and occasionally a compliment!) rather than a swear word. Not that I use it very often.

Lab.. if I had cable any more (I gave it up in exchange for broadband..) I would watch Food Network all fricking day. I'd put the TV on channel 38 and then pour hot glue into the remote control.

I also watch House and Scrubs. Yes, House might be a little bit "samey" but people do occasionally die (usually only when there's more than one person with the same disease, though..) and the whole programme is completely surreal. I suspect that Lab enjoys it because House is a curmudgeon. I could be wrong about this.
I also love Boston Legal, ER, NCIS, CSI (Vegas only, can't be bothered with the others), Grey's Anatomy and The Closer. That's about about all the television I watch these days, except for news (and the occasional Friends rerun... because I'm a dork) and half of those programmes aren't on at the moment, anyway.

Thanks for the Tchoupitoulas St pronunciation guide, Jeff.. it was pretty much how I imagined it would be pronounced. My grandfather (when we saw him - he lived in Australia) used to test us on spelling and pronunciation of place names.. or just funny/unusual words. He'd pay us when we got one right.
Cholmondeley is pronounced CHUM-ley. That's a lot of wasted letters.

Jamester - is it wrong that I'm glad you didn't enjoy your dream? It just goes to show how much you love the wifester.
*tries to remember the last sexy dream I had* Dang.

All your games

are belong to us.

Thanks for that, Kaf. Interesting analysis.

I don't find House to be all that curmudgeonly, really. He's just reacting to the buffoons he's surrounded with. I like him because he's always right. And he has a cane.

The "sameness" of the story lines doesn't bother me with that show any more than it does every other show. Are there any shows that are really different? I'd like to find one. That would be cool.

I like it being the same, it makes it easier to follow after 10 hours of being in the preschool followed by a two hour New Testament class. My brain's pretty much ready to stop thinking when I get home on Tues nights and grab dinner from the crockpot. YAY! for crockpots!! (not for crackpots)

Yeah, the crackpots are teaching the new testiment classes.
/editorial comment

Hey! Todd Parker is NOT a crackpot and I LOVE that class.

Just keep in mind that his degree is in teaching. In other words, he has no formal education that makes him an expert in anything new testiment related.

I really should make more use of my crockpot...

*giggle* Since I have no microwave...

Just heard about it...repairs would be more than $200.

We will be purchasing a new microwave.

We will also put the date of purchase on the manual that comes with it.

Nearly everything in the house that has an instruction booklet, has, written on the manual, the date it was purchased. With the correct model number circled.

Except for this microwave. Oh the model number was circled all through the book.

But no purchase date.

Maybe not, but he has all his references for any information shared in class listed (with the quotes etc) in a packet. Nothing he says is from him, everything came from someone else, people who are qualified to make statements about ancient Jewish customs and Hebrew and Greek words for example, he never stands in front of the class and claims to be an authority on the subject.

Lab, I'm gonna ask you this one more time:


I bet he doesn't have a teaching degree. He's working at a university, right? People who teach in universities usually have a specialty. Unfortunately, Todd Parker's specialty is economics.


JK Sarah!

Sorry, Sarah. That was mean of me. A good friend of mine, a man who is brilliant, decided to stop studying medicine, where he would have made a real impact, and studied religion instead. That boggled my mind. I still can't understand how someone with his ambition could give up on seeking knowledge, and instead learn to recite doctrine.

That doesn't give me the right to be mean.

Susan, staple a copy (or the original) recipt to the instruction manual, it's easier to request a replacement for a faulty part/appliance if you can send them a copy of the recipt, and it has the date and time of purchase.

Sarah, one thing I've learned, being the cynic that I am, is that the farther removed you are from the actual source, the less likely it is that the source knows as much as the messenger is telling you.

In other words, I'd doubt that the people writing the material know anything more than they were told. Ultimately, in religious studies, you don't get anything more than what the heads of the religion want you to get.

I don't find House to be all that curmudgeonly, really. He's just reacting to the buffoons he's surrounded with. I like him because he's always right. And he has a cane.

I said I could be wrong and I was. Had to happen one day. ;)

Todd B. Parker (Ed.D. in educational psychology, Brigham Young University) is Associate Professor of Ancient Scripture at Brigham Young University.

I stand half-corrected.

I was just kidding, Kaf. Being curmudgeounly by seeing the world the way House does. Get it?

I knew you weren't being intentionally mean, but this is the third class I've taken from Dr. Parker, and I've learned tons from him. His teaching style is great and he has a humility lacking in most other professors, who seem to think that because they know more about something than I do I must not know anything.
Also, the sewing prof has a degree in education, not sewing, but she had a custom sewing company in SF for 15 years and designed/sewed clothing for the rich and famous (and the plain-old rich) and is very qualified to teach the class, even without a doctorate in pattern alteration, so it doesn't always matter what you study in college.

peach yogurt is disappointing.

For what, wolfie? Oh, to eat! Yeah, I had the boysenberry this morning.

And pizza for lunch.

Love that pizza.

Lab, nice music lineup.

I know Jimmy Buffett has done Sonny Landreth songs, including "U.S.S. Zydecoldsmobile."

$200 for a microwave repair? But a new one can be had for $39, Susan!

Tough call I know, but I'd go new.

Kaf, I once read a book by journalist Claud Cockburn but was somewhat disappointed to learn it was pronounced CO-burn. His daughter was the mystery writer Sarah Caudwell, who wrote 4 very entertaining Oxford-based mysteries. Sarah's mother was Jean Ross, the model for Sally Bowles.

Quite an interesting family.

You have to remember that I decided to go to a religious university, one owned and funded by my church (which is how tuition is $1,810 a semester, YAY! for the church subsidising my education!!) and that I believe in what the school is all about. I believe that Gordon B. Hinkley is a prophet and that God hears and answers our prayers. I believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet and saw and talked with God. You may think that makes me a crackpot, and that's okay, but it's what's been getting me through my depression and life in general, and I'm not going to change my mind.
YAY! for living in a country that allows religious freedom!! (even if they goofed in the past *coughmartinvanburencough*)

Teaching sewing and teaching the writings of an ancient culture are about the same as apples and binary star systems.

Why are you spending your money on sewing classes in college? Don't they have any history or science or... I don't know... something educational?

*zips in*

Bur educational psychology and religion??? I think I'd be worried about being manipulated.

ooh.. then I'm right, and all is as it should be because I have yet to be wrong again. Although I was wrong about being wrong.. so does that make me wrong or right?

Curious (and unrelated) bit of psychoanalysis...
There are two women that I meet most day at my bus stop on the way to work. We talk most days, and I've gotten to know them quite well. For the last week, however, L has been visiting family in the North Island and R has been housesitting, and taking a different bus to work. Yesterday, when I got on the bus, another passenger (who I talk to occasionally, but not often) said to me "Alone again, huh?" Now.. there were 4 other people at my stop who got on at the same time I did, so I patently obviously wasn't alone, and yet.. I had felt alone, because "my friends" weren't there.

Sarah, are you required to take a certain courseload in arts or something, hence the sewing? I had to have some arts, science, and I guess humanities at Rutgers. This sounds twisted, but my "art" was Biology (my major) and my "science" was psychology (minor). Sounded backwards to me. Spanish was the other one (mini).

Sarah, we may have the receipt around somewhere.

As it happens, we apparently bought it at Circuit City...but they don't sell microwaves anymore.

Oh boy. And I had finally gotten able to set the clock on it...without using the manual.

Kaf, speaking of swearing, after Jackie's mother started teaching (age nearly 40) she started cursing a lot.

Connection? You make the call. But she did have quite a foul mouth at times, calling people "@ssholes" and the like.

I just learned something new! I had no idea they taught sewing in universities... for some reason, in my geezer mind I thought it was a class taught during home ec in high school.

Then again I have a faint memory of my advisor suggesting I take a gym class my freshman year in college and my arguing that if I wanted to double major between international business and hospitality management I wouldn't have time for that. *shrugs shoulders*

Sarah, I don't think you're a crackpot. I think you're a religious fanatic. That's not a bad thing. It's not a good thing. It's just who you are.

I am not. I'm a science fanatic. And I crave knowledge. For me, that comes from studying science, and not from believing in something.

Remember those "magic picture" things where, if you looked at them just right (with your eyes separated like you are looking farther away than you really are) and then suddenly you see a dolphin or sailboat or something? What if you have no problem seeing them, and I never see them? I just can't do it.

It's like that. I simply cannot see the world the way you do. And you can't see it the way I do.

My major is Family and Consumer Sciences Education, and sewing is a part of it. I'm earning a degree to teach home ec to middle and high school studens. It's not basic sewing (eg pj pants or buttons) but I made a tailored dress shirt for my dad that is better constructed than any of the ones he's bought (and he doesn't buy cheap clothes) I've learned pattern and clothing alteration, which is applied math and an art. I'm also taking history of design and art, as well as comparative literature, science, finance, english, and language classes to graduate.

My degree (B.S. - ha ha ha) is in mathematics and computer science. I took a lot of math classes. And a lot of computer classes. Lots and lots. And lots. I would have loved to have had more history, but no time.

What's really sick is that enjoyed the math classes. I wanted to get a PhD in math.

I ain't right in the head.

Wow. I bet my home ec teachers didn't get any degrees like that! FWIW, our shop teacher was missing 2 fingers. ;)

Flight attendant: Ladies and gentlemen, the captain will be dimming the cabin lighting for the remainder of the flight in order to enhance the appearance of the person sitting next to you. Individual lights are located above your seats if you wish to read, or look at the person sitting next to you.


Pilot: Ladies and gentlemen, I'm just going to power off the plane for a minute and restart it. Kind of like control-alt-delete on your computer.


Here's one for El:

Conductor: We are now approaching 161st Street, Yankee Stadium. If you're not getting off here, you should. Go see the second half of the Boston Massacre. Have a good day.

--Uptown 4 train

Pilot: Ladies and gentlemen, I'm just going to power off the plane for a minute and restart it. Kind of like control-alt-delete on your computer.

I actually had a pilot say this on a flight I was on, in July when I was flying to UT with my brother and it took us longer to fly than it took the rest of the family to drive.

I forgot to put my minor up there ^ It's history education, so I'll teach history too (that way someone might actually hire me)

I was in joseph smiths house. And I didn't burst into flames.

Each of my friends that graduated with teaching degrees 5 years ago are now going back to school.

One of them is going back to be a doctor.
Another, a mechanical engineer.


Ok, this is my opinion, and it has more to do with the educational systems than it does the teachers but:
history teachers = liars

Almost everything you learn in history until you get to college is not based on fact. It's an oversimplified, politically acceptable distortion of the facts.

The reason it's this way: Legislators control what is taught.

Quick quiz
1. Who was Betsy Ross?
2. Who was Christopher Columbus?
3. How did Columbus know the earth wasn't flat?
4. Who was on the Mayflower?

1. that flag lady!
2. boat dude! Italian!
3. the horizon!
4. pilgrims!

I never was good at history.

Lab! Don't you know by now there isn't a #3?

LAB! Your quiz is rigged. Everyone knows there is no #3!

And who is joseph smith???!!


Maybe because they rebuilt it?

*not joking*
I'd like to go someday. My cousin lives in Rochester with her husband and baby boy (why does EVERYONE I know have baby boys?) Maybe I should visit

Leetie, please elaborate on #1 and #2.

4. Who was on the Mayflower? The MOVERS!

1. sewing!
2. Santa Maria!

What did she sew?

What's the big deal about the Santa Maria?

Every education class Jackie took in college was worthless. Teachers - who hadn't been in an elementary school classroom EVER - read from textbooks.

One of them told Jackie she didn't like her because she was too tall. Or maybe it was the one who said she reminded her of someone she hated.

She took the minimum # of ed courses and majored in history. It took several years until she became a competent teacher.

It was ummm... interseting sarah. All kinds of people wandering around the grounds being terribly.. nice.. But if you walk right up the stairs you can go in. All the nice people look at ya funny and wonder how you got invited in. Trick is not to wait for an invite.
Course then they send you to the indoctrination erm... official welcome center. Seems to me his house ought to do it since it's claimed to be a public building n all. *shrugs*

*puts herself in time out to keep from answering leetie*

Psychology and Literature for me. I too believe in the scientific method.

Wolfie, how can you be sure there's not a time delay?

Hello MOATies. I'm tired, I have a boatload of studying to do, and I need to get offline and get it done.

Sarah, I can't even sew on a button. Literally. I've tried it. It came out crookedy. A lot of the girls in my dorm know how to knit- one is even teaching another one how- and I can't knit either. I do have some kneedles and yarn somewhere. I will have to ask B. to teach me like she's teaching S. I could make a scarf! Or a throw! Or something.

I'm sure I've mentioned my ambition to study/practice psych after I finish here. Lab, my dad agrees with you- he thinks studying theology is a waste of time. Sometimes it is. At this particular institution, it kind of sharpens your mind; sometimes enough that's it's 'ow! ow! enough with the sharpening!' But there it is.

It's not underwater basketweaving, at least. Or jazz history. My newlywed cousin B.'s new husband is going to be getting a PhD in jazz history. I hope--I think we all hope--that homeboy ends up employed, and not at Starbucks or Home Depot.

1. As kids we were taught that Betsy Ross sewed the first U.S. flag at the request of Geo. Washington, a story spread by her family after her death and extremely unlikely.

2. Santa Maria was Columbus's largest ship and The Santa María was originally named La Gallega ("The Gallician"), probably because she was built in Galicia, (but it was also a euphemism to design a prostitute, it seems the ship was known to her sailors as Marigalante, literally "Dirty Mary").

What's the big deal about the Santa Maria?

Ask the Nina and the Pinta! Duh!

Who was on the Mayflower?
On a latter voyage (not with the Pilgrims) Mr (i forget his first name) Billings of England (lancastershire maybe? I don't remember, I'd have to ask my dad) and his family, my ancestors

Blogchik, I can sew on a button. That's about it for my sewing skills but I can do that much.

Ok, the Nina, Pinta, and Santa Maria. What did he do with these ships? You haven't said anything yet!

I'm getting irritated now, mister. I told you I'm not good at history. I'm only continuing with this so you can get on with it! :)

1. The first flag, commissioned by George Washington?

2. It had really big sails?

Now tell us the real stories.

*bangs head on desk*
oh the answers i cannot give without giving offense. good grief this is painful.

Jamester ~ with enough parfait, everything has a time delay. also I've seen my obit and it lists bizare kitchen accident involving a chicken, a midget, a spork and some string cheese.

One time when I was on a plane, the captain made his usual "We're now arriving ... blah blah ... the weather is ... blah blah" speech and said, "I'm Captain Crash and it's be a pleasure flying with you today."

There was stunned silence by those of us who had actually be listening, then we burst out laughing.

I took in a wool/cashmere blend coat from a size extra-large to a medium. The coat was on clearance for $38, regularly $120, but only came in the one size. It was a lot of work, sometimes frustrating (sewing on anything plush, and anything black is annoying, both is even worse) but I did it, and it fits perfectly. YAY! for sewing to save money!!

Well, he certainly didn't discover America, if that's what you're getting at.

Sarah, was it John Billington?

1. Jeff hit it on the head. We all know who she is from school: She sewed the first flag. That story has no basis in verifiable evidence and wasn't told until 1870.

About.com touches on this, but still concludes: Even if she did not make the first flag -- even if the visit by George Washington never happened -- Betsy Ross was an example of what many women of her time found as the reality in time of war: widowhood, single motherhood, managing household and property independently, quick remarriage for economic reasons (and, we can hope, for companionship and even love, too).

WTF kind of spin is that? Why even spin it? This is supposed to be HISTORY, not... ethics or something. It's a made up story and has no value. End there. History doesn't need whitewashed.

I hope it wasn't, Sarah, as John Billington was The first man hanged for murder in the New World.

Wolfie, let's hope it's the midget on my blog. At least the dude can dance!

Well, Jeff Googled! I didn't.

There's a term for that, Lab: Phony Folklore. A friend was in Stratford (England, not Connecticut or Ontario) and touring "Anne Hathaway's Cottage" (NOT!) when the guide told him that they had no clue about Shakespeare, his wife, where they lived, etc. It was just a "representative house from the right era" that they were using to fleece the suckers show the tourists and make money.


It was Wikipedia.

But I already knew it.

I don't think studying religion = reciting doctrine. There is a lot of knowledge to be sought there. Religious studies always intrigue me.

Who was on the Mayflower? My great great great (etc and so on yada yada)grandfather, Samuel Fuller, the doctor; under whose care more than half died the first winter. Now, here's the thing about pious old Sam. He left his wife behind in England..... And I'm one of his descendants on THIS side of the pond. (is there an emoticon for one raised eyebrow??)

Lab, my daugther is getting her Ph.D. in Math.

I had a #3, but I'm not telling you what it is.

2. Leetie finally said what I was looking for. We're all taught that Columbus "discovered" America.

The real significance of Columbus is that he was the beginning of the European invasion of North and South America, and began the slaughter and enslavement of the indigenous population.

We honor him with a holiday when he should be seen as a villain.

It wasn't Billington, it was a guy named Billings and he came on a later voyage, wasn't a pilgrim, but it wouldn't be strange for one of my ancestors to flee religious persecution. First the Huguenots fled France and ended up in England, then the Mormons in West Yorkshire fled England to Nauvoo (so did the one's in Missouri) then everyone fled to Utah, where they had to deal with the US army coming.

3. Everybody knew the world was round by then. Some "history" book (I don't have the reference with me) included the "people thought the world was flat" thing in it with no basis whatsoever. It was made up! And yet it's been repeated in history book after history book.

Well, I for one firmly believe that today should be recognized as a National Holiday. Or, at the very least a Hallmark Holiday.

Today is the first day of the Monopoly Game at McD's.

YAY for the monopoly game!

My Dad's side of the family were descended from Sam Fuller. My Mom's side were already on this side of the pond, waiting for them (so to speak). They were French Huguenots who came over in 1595 with the Dutch East (or west, I get confused)India Trading Company on the Tiger; which burned as it approached shore. The story goes that they used planks left from the ship and spent the first winter on what is now Wall Street and later settled in Flatbush.

Bored yet?

Ultimately, in religious studies, you don't get anything more than what the heads of the religion want you to get.

I respectfully disagree, Lab. In so many years after the Bible was written, commentators past and present shed light on passages that I would not have gotten on my own. They have studied the original Hebrew and Greek, the history, the culture - I have not. Reading a variety of commentaries can show which are not in agreement with the majority.

I had an ancestor come over on the Mayflower too. I can never remember who though, or which branch of the family that's in.

4. The Mayflower carried the people that would become the first permanent European settlers in New England. The passengers were largely a group of religious separatists that had moved from one location to another throughout Europe, and eventually, inspired by the Jamestown settlement, decided to head to America.

They found an empty indian village and settled there. They survived by digging up stores of food that had been burried by the indians for safe-keeping.

The village was empty because the inhabitants had died from diseases brought from Europe. Skeletons were found above ground because the remaining people were so sick and weak they couldn't bury them.

Yet, we were taught how noble and heroic the pilgrims were for seeking religious freedom. Why were the plundering details left off?

Well, since there were no Winn-Dixies, Piggly-Wigglies or Hy-Vees nearby, plundering was one of the few options.

And why was the plundering left out of the history books? Because the history wasn't written by the Indians.

Flatbush? Can't be bored by Flatbush.

Tell more about Brooklyn!

To paraphrase Alvy Singer: My grammy didn't come over on the Mayflower. She was too busy getting raped by Cossacks.

Lab, who IS buried in Grant's tomb?

World traveler: Really, you can get anything on the streets of Bangkok. Thai prostitutes, smoothies, passport pictures...It's like Craigslist.

--20th & 8th

Preppy guy: Is there a philosopher named Kenneth Cole? Because there is this huge billboard with his quote on it.

--Sugar Sweet Sunshine, Rivington between Norfolk & Essex

I learned about them in my history classes in HS.

*wipes eyes*

I just talked to my brother. He's a totally different person than he was 12 weeks ago when I last talked to him. He's much nicer, gentler, and he told me he loves me. I can't remember him ever saying that before. He's excited to be leaving Provo, excited to be going to Atlanta, and even more excited that Thailand picked a new temp PM and that they are working to get things back together because that means he'll be able to get a visa and go there and live and work with the people and help them. I don't mean he'll only help them spiritually, he'll help them temporally as well.
He said that maybe I haven't been able to find a counselor because I'm not supposed to; maybe I just need to do this myself and stop putting it off till I find someone to help me. Maybe God isn't helping me find a counselor because he knows that I can do it without one as long as I have His help.
/Sarah's sobfest

In grade school, you learn about Betsy Ross and Johnny Appleseed and George Washington. You learn the easy-to-comprehend stuff. Is it of vital importance to validate whether or not Betsy Ross sewed the first flag when you are 6? I doubt if you could get a degree in Betsy Ross flagmaking at a university.

Reading a variety of commentaries can show which are not in agreement with the majority

MOTW, but you still wind up deciding for yourself which comments you agree with, right?

MOTW, can you really understand what the author meant if you know nothing about the time in which he wrote?

And, do you really know what the author wrote? Or who he was? How did that document come to be written and what has happened to it between that time and now?

It's like reading "The Great Gatsby" without knowing anything about F. Scott Fitzgerald or 1920s Long Island life.

In grade school, you learn about Betsy Ross and Johnny Appleseed and George Washington. You learn the easy-to-comprehend stuff.

I call it "being indoctrinated into White America".

I should have elaborated: They plundered graves, and plundered the stored of the few remaining indians.

And yet I remember hearing about the Pilgrims digging up the Indians' supplies. I must have had a different history teacher than you, Lab. I also thought I remember something about the Pilgrims trip being approved because it was thought that they could be profitable in some way. Trapping? Farming? Couldn't have been farming. Does this ring a bell with anyone else? Dang. I hate not remembering. Maybe my mind fabricated the whole thing.

Sorry my boobs are no fun.

Johnny Appleseed was real, Leetie!

Exactly! That's what makes religion classes so interesting. My parents taught me to take the same approach with other classes in HS (history, econ, etc) and "study it out" before I decide what to believe. We were taught not to just blindly believe whatever the teachers or the textbooks say.

I had a history book in 8th grade that said Joseph Smith was lynched by the Mormons, having been to the Carthage jail where he was shot by an angry mob, having seen his blood staining the floor, having read eyewitness accounts of the event, I knew this wasn't true, I will forever remember this as the moment I realized for myself that you can't always believe what you read or are taught, but that you have to look deeper and find the true story. It was then that I really understood what my dad had been trying to teach me and finally knew why it was so important.

I've since tried to find both sides to any story before deciding what I believe happened. I'm glad that my parents raised me to think for myself and wish more people would do the same.

and they included church teachers in that (I once had a sunday school teacher say that Joseph Smith wasn't murdered, but was abducted by aliens and that she knew this because she saw him in the spaceship with the aliens)

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