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February 17, 2013

Miracle Canes win again!; plus LeBron schools Jordan, Battier tops Wade, Giancarlo's smart play, Robbie Rogers' gayness & more

1aa1hardaway[1) It is SUNDAY, FEBRUARY 17. Ex-Heater Tim Hardaway (pictured), eligible for first time, is one of 12 finalists for Basketball Hall of Fame. I had doubts he was a first-ballot guy but think he'll make it because only Gary Payton (who ended his career with Miami) outshines him on ballot. 2) I get the feeling these allegations against Ryan Braun are going to end badly for him. His previous test-positive for PEDs, though overturned on a technicality, makes it tougher to believe his link to Miami's Biogenesis clinic is innocent. 3) Note: Our Heat Big 5@50 feature will appear as play resumes following the All-Star break. 4) In The Previous Blogpost (ITPB): LeBron vs. Michael poll, UM hoops, Dolphins logo, D-Wade's socks, Marco Rubio, kangaroos. 5) Join us on Twitter @gregcote]

Click on Random Evidence my today's latest Sunday notes column, leading with (what else?) the wonder of LeBron.

Soon-to-be No. 2-ranked Miracle Canes win again!: Tonight it was a 45-43 last-minute triumph at Clemson, a tough place to play, and the nature of the win underlined the fateful feel of this season for the No. 3-ranked Canes. Miami needed a late three-point shot from Kenny Kadji and a beneficial/debatable charging call against Clemson to rally from four down. UM is now 12-0 in the ACC with a 13th straight win. Amazing. Canes will rise to No. 2 in the polls on Monday.  

ALL NET: LEBRON SHOOTS DOWN THE RING OBSESSION: Michael Jordan has won six championships. If you don't believe it, just ask him. He apparently is the mayor of the rings-are-the-thing wing of judging

1aa1kingwho's 1aa1allstarthe best in sports. Thus he said Kobe Bryant trumps LeBron James because five (rings) is better than one. "Right on!" agreed Magic Johnson in a Tweet, or words to that effect. Well, it's nonsense and the only people who don't seem to know it are the athletes whose self-worth seems fundamentally rooted in the number of rings they possess. Miami is particularly unreceptive to this thinking, in that we are home to perhaps the greatest player in any sport to not have a ring (Dan Marino), and are somewhat resistent to the idea that, say, Trent Dilfer is in any way greater because he does. LeBron gave voice to this lunacy Friday from NBA All-Star Weekend in Houston, in addressing Jordan's statement. He noted, reasonably, fairly, that Bill Russell's 11 rings does not mean he is "greater" than Jordan. He noted, with a bull's-eye, that greats like Charles Barkley never won a ring while passengers such as Jud Buechler (a miniscule reserve on Jordan's Bulls) did. Rings do not or at least should not define an athlete. All-round individual excellence and dominance in one's era should. By that standard, LeBron stands with anyone, anytime.

Poll result: Surprise! Take LeBron now over Jordan in his prime: Few of our poll results surprise me, but this did. A clear majority of 64.1 percent said they'd rather have LeBron James on their team right now than Michael Jordan in his prime. Yes, Heat fans surely read this blog in greater number than other teams' fans. Yet the percentage favoring LeBron was only slightly higher (66.4%) in the state of Florida, where a greater percentage of Heat fans might be assumed.

BATTIER BEATS WADE AT SOMETHING: ESPN.com lists its Top 75 Players in NCAA Tournament History to mark that event's 75th anniversary, and the Heat's Shane Battier (Duke) ranks 34th to Dwyane Wade's (Marquette) 65th. Battier averaged 22.5 points/10.2 rebounds for the 2001 champions and was Final Four MVP; Wade had a triple-double vs. Kentucky in the regional final to get his team to the Final Four. The list's top five: Lew Alcindor (UCLA), Bill Walton (UCLA), Christian Laettner (Duke), Bill Russell (San Francisco) and Magic Johnson (Michigan State). Other notables include Glen Rice (Michigan) 20th, Isiah Thomas (Indiana) 22nd, Joakim Noah (Florida) 47th, and Michael Jordan (North Carolina) 57th.

1aa1gstantonSTANTON'S SMART GRACIOUSNESS: As Marlins players reported Friday for the full start of spring training Giancarlo Stanton had his pulpit to rehash his disappointment if he chose. To decry the latest fire-sale as he had when it happened a few months ago. Instead Stanton showed maturity and leadership, said he had "turned the page" and would not be "pouting." Traded-away Jose Reyes, now a Blue Jay, regurgitated his disappointment on Friday and said he "felt sorry" for Stanton, but Stanton had the perfect response. "Why?" he said. "I'm in the big leagues. I play a game for a living." Stanton's stance serves him well as the face of the franchise. Nobody wants another Hanley Ramirez in terms of attitude. Pragmatically, Stanton's professional approach also will impress other teams who'll try to pry him from the Marlins. Here's hoping they fail. It's a long-shot that Miami and Stanton would agree on a long-term contract extension, largely because of Jeffrey Loria, but that hope is a lot of what Marlins fans have to hang onto right now.

ON CRISTOBAL'S UM FUTURE: Newly hired Hurricanes assistant Mario Cristobal interviewing for Alabama's O-line job surprised no one at UM, least of all Al Golden. A source on the staff tells us Cristobal made it very clear in taking the job that he wants another head-coaching position as soon as possible, and knows that won't be at Miami if Golden's committment is as solid as it seems. Cristobal seeks a stepping stone, and being on Nick Saban's championship staff is about the best place for any upwardly mobile assistant to be.

ROBBIE ROGERS LEAVES SPORTS STILL WANTING, AND WAITING: Former U.S. National Team 1aa1rrogersmidfielder Robbie Rogers said this week he is gay and that he is retiring from soccer, at age 25. Good for him for his honesty. The essence of a person, which includes one's sexuality, is bigger than one's occupation, and a person should come out on his own terms and timetable. Sports is still waiting, though, for the first major American team-sport athlete to reveal himself as gay while still an active player. Particular bravery will be required. To make the revelation in a post-career autobiography or upon retiring is fine, but the first athlete to take this stand in mid-career will be heroic in terms of breaking down barriers and fomenting acceptance. Who will it be? And when?

Click back. Will be updating/adding to this latest blogpost.


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welcome back all the smelly shite-caked passengers of Carnival Cruise's triumph of the will. at least the doomed ship didn't run aground. Schettino!


Wonder if any wrestlers, olympic or the fake one, has ever come out.

LeBron and MJ comparison is just nonsense...They are both among the best of all time.

The Heat's Arison is obviously not a swindler like Loria, but when it comes to paying taxes, he makes Stephen Ross look outright patriotic.


Jimbo, all that lewt the Papacy can provide inluding Swiss Bank account debit cards, beyond avarice I surmise, & no time to use it. How truly ironoic unless we all decide after I'm elected POPE DUKEY #1 to meet in Vegas where we spend a couple or three or more mil on us -the regulars- on a going elsewhere party!

Don't worry after the cataclyism we can retain some sense of our individuality so as to remember where were parked...

Yeah I could be the Pope of Greenwich Village. Sir Jimi would appreciate that I think...

Mickey Rourke too!

Sweet Jesus Cote, I think I just killed your blog...

Naw, their just living their lives.

I hope this time they pick an Antarctican

lol. Yes Mike1, I too would like an Antartican OR an Easter Islander for that matter...

OC, I have not forgotten your request. I will give you feedback once I am freed up to peruse it sir. Yes, yes FZB this meteorite business Jimbo has brought up is quite unsettling. I mean if this Universe can just up and destroy us at any moment well.. it's like "To be or not to be" all over again! Oh yeah but I suspect IT always could & can do just that anyway. Is carpe diem(sp?)in effect?

Christ Cote,Quit your MAN-LOVE CRUSH with Lebron..

OK Guys, Here's he 411 on "ROCKS FROM SPACE", There able(The guys from NASA)to Track the ones that are over 30 meters, About 102 Feet that would cause massive damage, The one in Russia was about 3 Meters(10-11 feet) You may say how could that cause damage??, Well when it's made of pure Iron it weighs about 8 thousand pounds, Multiple that by the speed it hits the atmosphere (About 33 thousand MPH) And thats how you get the damage, Look up Einstiens "E=MC2" For more info...
(BTW, I know something about this, I Teach astronomy in a University in the West Coast)..
Just saying, Soner or later a 180 foot,90 thousand pond iron rock will find us..

Anti, I like the one about the massive planetoid that struck the earth, was made part of the earth, and the scrap became the moon. Even the dinosaurs went - whew!

OC, I believe your talking about how the moon was formed,Back about 3 and half Billion years ago a Planet the size of Mars colliaded with earth on a 45 Degree angle, The Debris over only about a few thousand years formed the moon, At the time the moon was only about 25 thousand miles away from our planet, The Full moon at the time must have been amazing, Then again at that time the earth was molten hell on earth..


three-time winner with the bruins, a game even better than my favorite player walton's against memphis state- taking artis gilmore one-on-one and blocking eight shots and psyching gilmore out by dunking (against the rules then) right over him. a severe leg injury gave him mediocre numbers against howard porter and villanova in 71, but sidney wicks in the thirties of NCAA tournament players is absurd. 6'8", handled the ball like a guard, and perfected a beautiful and clutch (ask princeton and oregon state) by refusing to dunk against the 6'1" center for my high school, fairfax, and making jumper after jumper against the midget jewboys that payed off at UCLA and his ROY year at portland. one of the real great players that wooden had at UCLA (went to santa monica city college before joining curtis rowe of fremont to form the greatest frontcourt in college basketball history, despite not getting many minutes as a sophomore.)

Kinda like Miami in August..
BTW,OC, That was'nt the one that killed the Dinosaurs.

That was about 165 million years ago,Actually that was Recent as far as earth is concerned..(Unless you believe like some that the earth is only 5 thousand years old)(depending you beliefs)

Anti it's amazing to me how we humans are able to consistently do two things 1)Believe we're guaranteed or have already entered realm of immortality 2)Believe we can encapsulate the Universe with our minds. Despite all the red flags & Tsunamis to the contrary we do this to our detriment. It's precisely the opposite of sobriety.

Duke Those are some DEEP THOUGHTS...
Are you sure your not Jack Handly??

dukey, don't sweat it. I really don't expect anyone to sit through that. You have to be an architectural addict like myself to sit and want more. The stuff he's talking about is very advanced, but there are seven or so concepts that if understood, rewards the listener with an "I get it moment."

I always look back to Eric Moss as the guy most responsible for moving my education forward. Before taking his first class I would get nothing but straight A's in each and every architectural class. Didn't matter if it was design, history, tech. drawings. However, his was a philosophy class which required lots of writing. Twilight of the Idols, (meaning - the age of singular architectural genius was done) I believe he named the class. I understood the stuff, but the dude kept giving me D+. My work came back with more red corrections than my original content. The message was consistently the same - learn how to write professionally. Learn to spell (that's where all my correction crap originates) and use proper usage. And develop a vocabulary.

Everyone has one or two great and influential teachers in their lives. Eric Own Moss was that to me.

...in their life, not lives. See what I mean!

OC, Spell Check helps too, Though I cant figure out how to do it on my I-Phone... :(

Dukey, My I present "The Follie of Man....


Back in 77 there was only the dictionary. Computers, let alone, personal computers was not even a dream slated for Steve Job's parents garage.

personal computers WERE not. Damn!!!

Jack Handly is one funny, sick, twisted dude. Maybe we're related. I have to ah get stateside before I view that material soldier. Kaz seems to know why such a delay is necessary or at least I thought I saw him come up with my rationale once lol.

OC, How true, I remember having to actually going to a Library to do "Research",Do Librarys exist anymore??
The "Dewey Decimal" System??
Any of those exist anymore??
The "RV" Geek??
You remember that guy, Was in charge of the ilms and recording for the school..

Yup OC. One of my first great teachers was a man named Ron Cloutier. The course was called Introduction to the Art of Wondering. First sentense out of his mouth was every one of us human beings is going to die. He had me at DIE.

Hahaha, dukey. I can see it now. A class full of students daydreaming in every which direction. Hahahaha.

Dukster, Three thing you can count on...


I have never been remotely amused by that moment until just now lol. Thank you OC. Anti I rather like your trinity. Ron never did add the birth part. His policy was we could ask but he was not going to share his personal vision.

Sorry guys I Almost forgot the 4th part...
Depending how much money you make there 4 things in life you can depend on..



And Alimony....


Ellie Goulding was invited to sing this linked song at tonight's NBA show. Her live performance was severely lacking. Don't know if she was sick or what, but first I heard this song some eight months ago over and over and over in Austin, TX. What can I say, the radio stations, like their traffic lanes, are limited. It can grow on you though. Do like the video in widescreen and volume up.


Godzilla is just so damn much fun Anti Christo! Thatsa Amore! duke you suck as a speller. Birth is an a priori a**wipe...

Yeah Tony. Is it an a priori for a two year old? Up yers. lol

I SAID THAT'S ENOUGH YOU TWO! I'M TRYING TO MEDITATE FOR CHRISSAKES! Ok "Purity of Essence is next to Godliness, Purity of Essence is Next to Godliness, Purity of Essence is..."

Not meaning to sound standoffish...ah, the heck with that, of course I am. With the possible exception of Kaz87 and Potter, that music I just posted gets dismissed by every regular. Rubbish, OC. That's not music!

I can see it now, a solid line of wheelchairs making their way to the multipurpose room where each regular, Floyd, Zep and the nearly Dead stickers pasted on each chair while Rodolfo, an unfathomable, but kindly male nurse, may placate each regular by telling them how nice their music was.

Oh God, spare me.

S*** OC I didn't even check it out yet but now I must! Before I do man have you seen the most recent ad for Werlizer(sp?)organs? I used to get high and laugh at those facking ads until I saw most recent one. They was playing HOUSE OF THE RISING FACKING SUN!


I wonder if I could get into an 18 and up women shower room for 5-6 years if I said I had to use it cause I was gay and I GOT NO PLACE ELSE TAH GO!!!!!

The new Allspice commercial is kinda cool. Love that last hawk:

Not really sure where I was aiming with that sinking low cutter but felt it had to be said for some facking reason lol.

Now that I reflect upon intent for a moment it was aimed at Greg's morality lesson lol

Old spice. Damn, I'm cursed by my own self inflicted, grammar/correctness police.

Red Tail. The coolist Raptors. Them and Great Horned Owls are among my favorites OC. Let me finish commercial now..

dukester, we all know you keep late hours, but it's fun posting on here from the west coast while the likes of FZB is doing nothing but Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzing.

Talk about something I would want under my cigar Sigmond.

Talk about a nightmarish facking Freud dude slip. Meant essentially I would not like a Red Tailed Hawk near my dickster.

OC, you, duke and psycho general are all gettin' old...

Let me sneak a Dolphin's take on here, just for, as FZB would say, the fack of it. I think Ireland should pick Barkevious Mingo, a LE in the mold of JT when Miami picks at #12. Every mock draft on the net says that the Jets will pick him, so the pick may be moot.

If that happens (Jets/Mingo), they would probably go with the unsexy pick of CB, Jonthan Banks. Knowing Ireland, he will undoubtedly pay big bucks to whichever FA wide receiver takes the cash. Meaning, Ireland and the team will likely not take the top receiver in the draft.

Tony, true enough, but embracing, demonstratively buttressing that old fortress is far worse than physically dealing with those years, retarding the inevitable calendar by eating right, exercising, all-the-while selectively enjoying new and interesting realities as they come up.

Good, everyone went to sleep. I get to play midnight DJ with keyboards being the theme:


I'm an early bird OC. Trying to catch up on last 3 days posts by ya'll.

Wingo comment: so called experts say Wingo will go to a team that runs 3-4 D, claiming he's not the right type for 4-3 DE.... probably same experts that didn't think Jason Taylor out of Ohio wouldn't fit either.
IMO IF Fins go DE in rd 1, thinking Ducks Dion Jordan.

I can see taking a pass rushing DE or shut down CB in rd 1.... However, this team needs address the Offense. This draft is full of O talent, WR, TE, Linemen. Thin on QB & everyone knows Miami is banking on Ryan Tannehill for the next 2 yrs minimum.

I'd let Long, Starks, McDaniel walk without a contract offer, shake hands, give BS reason for parting ways and move on. I'd give Bush, Smith, Clemons a cap friendly - team friendly contract to stick around... (Clemons & Bush may sign,, Smith won't, he thinks he'll get a 10mil $$), make Hartline & Fassano a priority as a #2 WR. Hartline knows every team in the league sees him as a #2. Go after & sign Wallace (1st choice), Jennings or Bowe in that order,,, you HAVE to get one of these guys.
go after Ten TE Jarred Cook & possible DE, CB if Smith leaves, Safety with all that cap $ available.

If Miami resigns Hartline, gets top veteran WR in free agency along with another TE, lets Long go, I could see drafting Alabama G Chance Warmack in the first rd. Take a WR & RT in the 2nd round. Third rd you could get a decent S to play along side up and coming Rashard Jones.

OC, a lot of the now generation listens to the same music U & I do. My sons are ages 22 & 20. Their Ipods, MP3 players have most of what I have. We downloaded & shared quite a bit from lime-wire to I-Tunes. One kid also likes rap, hip-hop (I don't) & the other has scream metal (not here either).

duke, If a bunch of us met up in Vegas for a wild weekend with unlimited funds.... we would make "Hangover pt 1" look lame. all of us would be locked up.... like Tex Cobb.

Jimbo's joke of the day:
2 condoms were walking down the street together one evening,,,
During the stroll they passed a loud & rowdy bar called "Swallows" ultra gay bar,,,
Excitedly, one condom asks the other "Hey!" "Wanna go in there and get shit faced?"

Well it goes without saying Jimbo we'd jst have to grease the local, state & federal law enforcement agencies with Papacy greenbacks.

lol condoms, an "ultra" gay bar and two binge drinking condom pals. Yeah, you sold me friend lol.

Unfortunately when it became more clear the Papacy/Catholic was polizing itself to anastonishishing depraved extent & then had the where with all to relocate & Promote Cardinal Law well lets just say it wouldn't surprise me if a few charter members eft highly disillusioned to say the least. Very unfortunate separation between church and state for the individual's molested in particular and masses in general...

Sadly my typing skills and spelling are atrocious but pale in comparison to some other things adrift in the world...

alright duke, its on, were going to Vegas! I'll pick up OC when I cruise through Texas on my way. Get some Rudy's BBQ while I'm there. Law enforcement gets 50%off.

Now yer talkin son...

Ticker Tape sayz 69. I must be the 69tth unless someone bats me to the outlet!!!!!!

Duckey you was already 69 at 12:45PM.

Jimbo, did you get a chance to see the video I posted for ya? Outside of Woodcock, you're the only other dude who could remotely relate.

The language is foreign, but the speed is universal!


okay anyone want to take bets on the second, minute hour, date, & year technology will become self-aware and see humans as a threat? OR what comes first catacleysmic 180 foot 90 lb iron rock at DELTA WEATHER TANGO E=MC2 or Artificial Intelligence that beomes Self-Aware & Nukes MANKIND!

Don't know, dukey. But whatever cataclysmic thing that happens the media and the left will blame it on the Republicans.

What? ?? The moon is 3.5 b years old. Rick Perry and his conserves who help him pray for rain , tells me the universe was created 6000 years ago. His 3 days of prayers didnt work because he tried to use Christain prayer. Only american indians know how to do this right.
There should be enough steroids found inside the asteroid to get ave the town looking like....arnie..ok maybe just Lance

See what I mean?

It's looking like the 180foot 90 pound piece of iron just somehow seems I don't know I don't want to say we're over do necessarily but there are too many rocks in the universe. I believe I'm correct in saying that aren't I anti christ? Too many rocks in outer space?

What rhymes sort of with Pistorius? Pist-off- he- is

he says he ddnt do it, just 4 bullets and a cricket bat to the head. Guys, do you think a cricket bat or a baseball bat is more effective. Cricket Has more surface area, seems like force is disrtibuted among a flat surface. I just winderng if i shoud replace the basebat with a cricket bat. Where can you get one, any sports store?

Overdue, overdue!!! AHHHHH. Damn you Eric Moss!!!

We used to try to skid rocks off the surface of the atmosphere when i was 2. Maybe that is how they all got there. Because only once, did someone hit a golf ball off the moon, they cant all be golf balls, as good as Tigers distance is.

Sounds like Mike1 is having a Jack Handey moment.

Just high on sniffing unbought valentines chocolate,, really clears the brain. Forget them other things that rhyme with coke.

Seriously, if you had to choose between cricket or baseball bat as a weapon, let's for the moment skip Pat Benatar's. 'Sex as a weapon', which would you choose? Which would render the enemy most helpless.,,,,,,,wait, another valentine chocolate is beng delivered,

A Reggie Jackson 44 oz would do the trick and precisely for the difference in surface area. A cricket bat disperses the force vs. the concentrated impact zone of a bat. Think of it this way. Would you rather fall flat on your a** on the sidewalk or on top of a 1" steel ball bearing on top of the sidewalk?

The facking New York Times and Washington Post Whoremongers!

ha ha ha that ball bearing thing don't sound so good. OC so what a tire iron beats a cricket and baseball bat?

aaahhh so much to cover..


you're been holding out on us, now we know why you're a heathen, hehe..you're a scientist for Christ's sake, tell me wise guy if life on earth came from the heavens (the universe) and all those elements came together to form the most basic life forms (like the amoeba) then who created the big bam-bam when everything exploded?

aaahhh ha! I got you.

so now we have three scientist's..

Kaz87 (aka trust fund)..the king of water
Anti- the king of the universe

and..wait for it.

OC..the king of the Zodiac (sort of like the Cuban Walter Mercado)..you gringos need to learn about this cat, he's cool.


have you guys noticed that since I learned that kaz was only 25 I stopped calling him as asswipe, heck he's younger than mine boy, he could be my son, now when he posts something stupid I'm a little more understanding, he's just a young buck.


your late night music selections were right on,

summer madness and traffic were the shit amigo, love them both, weather report?... a big NO.

so Anti, if one of those big rocks hit us dead on what are we talking about, even the roaches are fack?


no one knows when is judgement day (machines taking over the world) but when that happens rest assured I'll be blaming Anti and Kaz87 for it.

or maybe Skynet/Cyberdyne systems are already doing the ground work to take over the world...its only a matter of time...yup, we are royally fack.

resistance is futile.



I can honestly say the person with the most influence in me as I was growing up and to this day even after he's passed on was my old man.

I miss you viejo!

Cricket bat

Too many words Too many spellings Too many words sound the same but they don't facking mean the same. Oh fack it!

Just learned that you can't place "less than" signs after a word or it will leave it out.

That last post was supposed to say (lets try greater than this time):

A mace>tire iron>baseball bat>cricket bat

Mike1 those are wildly variant a prioris between Father Fletcher and Sigmund the Scientist!

Well, back to painting. I'll talk to you guys later.

OK OC and Jimbo,

I know the Dolphins need WR's but the wise thing to do would be for them to sign a big time free agent wideout (like Jimbo says) along with Hartline and draft an elite DE at 12th (my choice) or a corner if there is one there.

you can get a WR in rounds two or three along with a TE, also signing Fasano WOULD be a good idea.

Kazaam is advocating going after P Harvin, the guy has a ton of talent but he appears to be a head case and thinks he is just as good as Megatron, I think I'll pass on him for two, a third yes I would make the trade.

I love this new facking word too duke. Rolls off the facking tongue like facking butter.


a cricket bat has much more "surface area" and doesn't yield foul balls (the cricket field is 360 degrees aroung the wickets). another case of the "priveleged" in society who runs amok and offs his "babe"- phil spector, robert blake, #32, robert walker/christopher walken (one of or both of them killed natalie wood when she found them doing the no pants dance on that boat). gruesome actions from a gruesome guy who was sanctified in the sports pages of the world.

and speaking of the word fack...


Yeah I kept waiting for the facking Weather Report. The music relaxed some tense muscles. I never heard of no facking group named facking weather report though. I need alittle time to play with this new facking to FZB gave me. Excusa my language...


there is no NBA hall of fame, so he must get in on his college/pro careers. in college at UTEP, he was second fiddle to the late "jeep" jackson of gardena high in LA, and without looking at the stats i don't reckon him as an NBA HOFer. plus, that ridiculous crossover was palming which should have been a turnover every time. at golden state in "run TMC" (i think he was one of the members) they tried "smallball" way back but the sulking chris webber didn't want to play center (i think it was center- wanted to face the basket and shoot and not be a pivotman" which led to the dismantling of one of the NBA's more interesting experiments).

Hmm admittedly I pulverize the keyboard with hammeron chicken pecking(one word or two?)but should that accoun (heres one) for so many words wthout(heres another) the first or last couple two three letters? I thought technology didn't make no facking mistakes.

HA HA HA FZB Sofa King Ha Ha Ha thatsa a keeper!

Damn I miss crank calling the public at large...


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