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September 25, 2012

Long national nightmare ends! Real NFL refs return!; plus pix 'n fantasy (WWE), SOPY rankings, bickering Marlins & more

[1) It is THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 27. Mike Love, who unfortunately owns legal rights to the name "The Beach Boys," has followed a successful 50th anniversary tour by firing three founding members of the group including mastermind Brian Wilson. Mike Love is a lunatic. 2) Visit our video channel at YouTube/TheGregCote and join us on Twitter @gregcote]

AGREEMENT REACHED AFTER NFL REPLACEMENT OFFICIALS HIT ALL-TIME LOW ON MONDAY NIGHT FARCEBALL: The real striped shirts will be back on the field beginning with tonight's Browns-Ravens game after an eight-year agreement was reached late last night. Click on Our National Drug for today's latest column by me, on how America's obsession with sports overrides everything -- yes, even including replacement refs. Original post: I tried, folks. I really did. I hated that so many fans were obsessing on the NFL replacement officials. I was, like, "Hey, 1aa1reprefsthey aren't perfect, so what?" But last night turned me around. Incompetent officiating literally stole a victory from the Green Bay Packers and handed it, unearned, to the Seattle Seahawks with an outrageously, preposterously blown call in the end zone on the game's final play. Seattle receiver Golden Tate snatched the ball off the chest of the intercepting Packers defender -- except really all he did was put an arm on the ball. The official at left is making the proper signal of GB possession, but the dunce on the right signalling touchdown prevailed. I think the official on the right, the cheater Tate, the referee and the replay official should all be tarred and feathered, paraded in shackles through every NFL stadium and pelted by bottles, then set loose in a meat-packing plant in Green Bay. There they should be beaten within an inch of their lives by enraged Packers fans swinging enormous legs of lambs, after which they should be shot from cannons into the middle of the ocean and stranded there until rescued or (preferably) devoured by lamb-blood-smelling sharks. In all seriousness, I would make two points. 1) The commissioner's office should void that final, mistaken call and award this victory to Green Bay in the best interests of the what's left of the integrity of the game. 2) The league should cave, give the real officials what they want and get back to the way it was, when we'd complain about the officiating but at least sort of trust it. (Do I sound bitter? The next item, Pix 'n Fantasy, may help explain why...)

Update: NFL statement on MNF mess: The league admitted that Seahawks receiver Golden Tate committed an offensive pass interference penalty that was not called -- and that shold have ended the game with Green bay winning. On the call itself, the league stands by the ruling of "simultaneous catch" favoring the offense, even though any sighted person not living in Seattle who watched the play live or on replay is aware it was not a simultaneous catch. What a calamity for the NFL. Embarrassing.  

NFL PIX 'N FANTASY: WWE: WORST ... WEEK ... EVER!: Speaking of embarrassing, let us just say that Monday night's stupefying ending was a perfectly fitting cap to my weekend. NFL predix: I went 3-13 on my NFL picks this past week. There. I said it. THREE AND THIRTEEN! I believe that is my single worst week in 22 seasons of Friday predix. (I was 4-11-1 against the spread). Everything that could possibly go wrong, did. Dolphins blow a field goal. Detroit's OT botchery. Saints' blown lead. Steelers' blown lead. Monday night. Just unbelievable. Greg's Lobos: Would my fantasy team offer me a smidgen of solace? Of course not! Lobos got whipped, 139-93. I had nobody better than 19 points. I am very close to finally running out of patience and benching Chris Johnson. That of course will be the week he rushes for 226 yards and three TDs.

HEATH: SHUT THE BELL UP!: Marlins defrocked closer Heath Bell popped off about his manager Ozzie Guillen on my friend Dan Sileo's WQAM show, saying, "It's hard to respect a guy that doesn't 1aa1bellhtell you the truth." And, "We need someone who leads us that everybody respects and looks up to." First thought: I know you're frustrated, Heath, but how classless to publicly rip your manager in-season. Second, Bell's own miserable April is what first tipped this season and sent it over the cliff. This human goat is the last man in that clubhouse who should be pointing fingers. (Bell is pictured, presumably marking down his latest blown save).

NHL MOURNS WITH 'LOCKOUT MAN': A hockey blog mourns the season-threatening NHL work stoppage with "Lockout Man," to the tune of Elton John's "Rocket Man." Click here to listen. Other than going on waaay too long, it isn't bad.

SOPY RANKINGS (WEEK 4): DANIELS STILL NO. 1, UM'S MORRIS CLIMBS TO FOURTH: This college football season marks the blog debut of our weekly State Offensive Player of the Year (SOPY) rankings, 1aa1bjdwhich I call the "Sunshine State Heisman" until a Heisman lawyer tells me to stop. Our chart encompasses the most productive seasons of any quarterback, running back or receiver from the state's seven FBS teams: Miami, Florida and FSU, FIU and FAU, and South Florida and UCF. (Note: Rankings consider only passing, rushing and receiving, not returns). Our formula awards one point per offensive yard gained running or receiving and a half-point per yard passing, plus six bonus points for touchdowns thrown or scored. Because our rankings are cumulative, players on a bye week take a temporary hit that evens out over course of season. After Week 4 it's B.J. Daniels of South Florida (pictured) on top for a second straight week. The SOPY Top 10 entering Week 5:

Rank (LW)     Player, Team-pos.     SOPY Pts. Week=Year

1 (1)     B.J. Daniels, South Florida-qb     249 = 830

2 (3)     E.J. Manuel, FSU-qb     304 = 694.5   

3 (2)     Jake Medlock, FIU-qb     59 = 606.5

4 (10)     Stephen Morris, Miami-qb     240 = 587.5

5 (4)     Jeff Driskel, Florida-qb     148.5 = 527

6 (--)     Chris Thompson, FSU-rb     194 = 508

7 (8)     Duke Johnson, Miami-rb     110 = 473

8 (6t)     Mike Gillislee, Florida-rb     73 = 446

9 (5)     Blake Bortles, UCF-qb     BYE = 376

10 (6t)     Kedrick Rhodes, FIU-rb     DNP = 373

Bubble: Graham Wilbert, FAU-qb, 364.5

State of the State rankings: 1. FSU (4-0); 2. Florida (4-0); 3. Miami (3-1); 4. UCF (2-1); 5. South Florida (2-2); 6. FIU (1-3); 7. FAU (1-3).

Click back. Will be updating/adding to this latest blogpost...

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FROM A SEATLE BLOGSITE:

http://www.thebiglead.com/index.php/2012/09/24/seattle-seahawks-win-joint-possession-catch-in-end-zone/

found this after my lengthy post, and i am in agreement with him, popular or not!

Big Baby,

no ball is ever intercepted until the defender comes doown inbounds or in the end zone- no possesion until he hits the turf. if golden tate latched onto the ball as jenkins or whoever it was comes down to earth, it is a simultaneous catch- as was the initial reaction of mike tirico.

please show me the rulebook citation that states that a caught pass is considered "possessed" by a receiver or defender while still in the air, and before or without hitting the ground- i will wait patiently too be directed to the rule that says that green bay had possession of the ball while their man was in the air and golden tate was on the ground.

posted on the other thread:

http://www.thebiglead.com/index.php/2012/09/24/seattle-seahawks-win-joint-possession-catch-in-end-zone/

That was not joint possession no matter how anyone wants to spin it.

Shadow you will like this I heard today that in Vegas alone there was a 15 million dollar money swing with the outcome of that game.

Shadow- Who cares about who ends up with ball. The bottom line was Tate should of been called for o- pass interference. The guy did not just push off, he shoved the guy. Watch the replay, when they hit the ground, the GB guy has the ball. Tate has his arm around him, and the back judge rules it incp. The other guy comes in and calls it a td.

No one ever gets called for pass interference on a hail mary, I believe Shadow is right, Tate's left hand is behind the ball, tie goes to the offensive player.

If Green Bay's defender had complete possession he could have jerked it away by rolling to the right when he hit the ground. He couldn't because Tate's arm was between his chest and the ball.

Whether or not it was the right call really doesn't matter, what does matter is the fans have lost faith in the replacement refs and the NFL needs to end the lockout immediately, before the Thursday night game.

This lockout is absurd, all the big numbers being thrown around are what the owners want to take away from what the refs already get (pensions, etc.).

The refs are asking for $3.3M a year in additional benefits. Gooddell makes $20M a year.

All the morons who were saying the refs need to give in and go back to work obviously underestimated how irreplaceable their experience is. The product really suffers when it takes full minutes to make easy calls.

For those who follow these stats, and there are guys who always use stats to make a point, Tannah. 32 in the league in qb rating, Ryan 114% no 1 in the league. As a Pats fan thank god the Dolphins saw fit to take Jake Long over Ryan.

The world is moving on from pensions Kazaam especially for part time employees.

Yes Naples Tannehill has a 58.3 QB rating very, very underwhelming thus far.

The Matt Ryan blunder will haunt us for another 10 years thanks for the good cheer.

But at least we have Matt Moore.

Yep and Moore is the Best QB on our team

Bottom line is the Packers got royally screeeeewed on this one, they need to bring back the real ref's but I must admit, this has been fun to watch.

Naples, yes drafting Long over Ryan a huge mistake, Thanks a lot Parcells.

Tannehill is making mistakes, he'll get better.

That may indeed be true.

Gosh I hope not.

For the record I wanted to roll with Matty and draft Michael Floyd.

*Matty or my son David G.

Sherman and Philbin admitted that the play calling was not up to par on sunday, nothing we can do about it now so is no sense in complaining about it anymore.

I think they got away from the running game too soon, our offensive line was killing the Jets front four, our offensive line coach (Turner) is the shit.

John Jerry and J Marting have been a big surprise, we finally have a young and very good offensive line, even better than the Patriots, right Naples?

I don't think anyone has picked up D Garrard right?

shame what happened to him but I'm glad that Tannehill is getting the experience this year, looking back I think Kazaam may have been correct on this one.

Play calling was fine Tannehill missed open receivers all day long.

Maybe we could have run more but that lost us the game.

"The Miami Dolphins are on the clock."

Off Awful Officiating for just a moment...

This is yet another example of why we should ALL strive to shape a government that actually facilitates and REWARDS an individual's creative spark. These kinds of ideas are NOT created by government, and with apologies to our current big gov guy, "yes sir Mr. President, HE DID build that!"

http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2012/09/25/two-wheels-good-one-wheel-better-ryno-electric-unicycle/?intcmp=features

Note: make sure to watch the short video.

The government does try to facilitate and reward individuals' creative sparks.

Conservatives would say it shouldn't.

KAZAAM AND THE OLE SHADOW VERSUS THE WORLD!!!!

no need to thank you for stating exactly what happened during that play-you saw what i saw and what we saw is exactly as you stated it- and you are really spot on when saying that nobody ever gets calle dfor anything in the end zone on hail marys. plus i saw sam form UM fall down after a negligible "push" from golden tate. that was a dive that you would say would make for a yellow card in futbol!!! gonna be away for the day of atonement- if i have offended anyone, member of the tribe or not, please let me off the hook for any transgression.

You're kidding, right?

OC,

great video, American ingenuity at its best !!!!

OC, Kaz is just trying to get a response from you with that stupid comment, either that or he truly believe's it, he he

alright Lad's, do we beat the Cardinal's on sunday or what?..

No.

Wanting the government to facilitate and reward individuals for their innovation is an insanely liberal and progressive sentiment.

Ever heard of Solyndra?

shadow, I must side outside you and Kaz on this one. While there may be certain passages within the rules that describe possession as it relates to the ground, et al. One also must recognize that even on less confusing plays, say when a receiver is making a catch on the sidelines, the issue of "control" comes into play.

It seems to me that Tate did not have "control" of the ball when he first hit the ground. While on the air it is fairly obvious to most observers that Jennings had more control of the ball. Even while Tate tried to wrestle it away providing the officials with what seemed simultaneous possession.

I don't think that any of the "official" officiating teams would ever call that anything other than an interception.

WHY MOST GUYS SHOULDN'T BE PICKING GAMES:

please read our host's paragraph about what caused his picks to go south over the weekend; a guy who goes 4-11-1 against the spread pays the bookie the vigorish on eight games. that makes a guy a guaranteed to be owing a lot of money to the guy who takes his action. guys, the few guys, who make money betting don't bet every game and wait for one that looks extremely good- say UM +14 last saturday- and doesn't bet every week just to have an interest. also doesn't bet on his home/favorite team consistently. the NFL is the undisputed king of where the "action" is and as stated single plays cause tens of millions of dollars to go one way or the other. whatever the under was last night, i am pretty sure that had to be a winning bet, as most people would have GB scoring 26 all by themself.

Cardinals are beatable Peterson will be locked onto Hartline opening things up for probably Bess (Moore, Armstrong ? Anyone there?).

If our d can rattle Kolb and Tannehill plays well we have a shot.

Running against them may be difficult and they have a good pass rush would love to see the upset though.

Didn't think we would be underdogs in this game before the season started.

LAST NIGHT'S LINE:

gb -1.5, over/under 47 points!!!!!! anyone who picked the overs was considering suicide by halftime.

Your missing my point Kazzam.

When I state that the government should facilitate an individual's creative spark I mean to say that they should get out of the way. That they should do as little as possible to meddle in the process. When I say that the government should REWARD and individual I mean to say that they should not tax the sh** out of them to the point of creative a disincentive for that individual to give up before even trying.

I'm a proponent of small government. These tenets are far more libertarian than conservative, and diametrical to that of liberals, and socialists.

Not hard to miss your point when it's the complete opposite of what you said.

I apologize for my assumption in what I felt was obvious.

OC Dolphin: LET'S PLAY SOME HOOPS

OC goes up for a rebound, grabs it in the air, and on the way down either the ole shadow or my front court partner Kazaam get both hands around the ball (not from over the shoulder, but from the side or front of our good friend OC). the call: JUMP BALL!!!- simultaneous possession; well, in the NFL "jump balls" go to the offense. had the packer defender not been in the air before golden tate got involved, it definitely would have been a turnover. since he was in the air, when possession is not acquired, the status is in question. when he hit the ground with golden tate around the ball, reception and TD.

shadow, I suggest contacting side judge Lance Easley. He's going to need all the help you and Kaz can give him.

Nice analogy, btw.

Guys , check this out SPECIALLY YOU KAZAAM,

http://www.stampedeblue.com/2012/9/18/3353992/colts-corner-vontae-davis-is-kind-of-playing-like-poop-right-now

you still think that trading Vontae Davis was a bad move?..

NOT TENS, HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS ON THE GAME LAST NIGHT BECAUSE OF THE PAT!!

the line was GB -1.5, so the mandated "extra point" turned the tables!! hope those packer bettors didn't have handguns in their homes when they called both teams back. the NFL is an interesting product whne viewed from the bettor's standpoint and viewers also.

shadow, we've seen this kind of thing before:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25H7rT3PfWc

Note: long clip, go to the 57 minute mark or beyond.

shadow the NFL has admitted that the wrong call was made but they are not changing the outcome.

Interestingly though they said that the call should not have been overturned (huh?) they are basing this on the missed push off call.

I think that maybe 95% of the people think the call was incorrect, to me is clearly an INT but the fact is Seattle has a win.

Not a damn thing anybody can do about it, they need to come to an agreement with the Ref's, I know they make mistakes, we all do but those guys are much better trained than these clowns, You guys would have started a riot if that was the Dolphins instead of the Packers.

with all the money the NFL makes this is a complete sham..

Hey Kaz, did you get a chance to see that little write up on your boy Vontae Davis?.. just wondering.

FZB I am ready to riot at Dan Carpenter's House.

Big Baby, lol...me too.

the crazy thing is Carpenter is a reliable kicker, oh well chit happens.

I also think that we have a good chance of beating the Cardinals but I'm sure they are looking at us as an easy win, after the Vikings beat the 49rs I know we can beat the Cardinals.

The NFL said the complete opposite, it was the right call according to the rules, as described by Shadow.

They missed the PI but those are never called on hail mary plays and are not reviewable.

Wrong.

"Saying there was no indisputable evidence, though, is not the same as confirming the initial call was correct. When the players came down with the ball, television showed one official standing over the pile ruling touchdown, while another next to him did not signal a score".

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/2012/09/25/nfl-upholds-seahawks-disputed-win-over-packers/9aQQFfzmYfCg04dNNGZirN/story.html

You're not quoting the NFL, you're quoting some bean slurping reporter's interpretation of the NFL's statement.

Says the NFL, on why the simultaneous catch call was correct:


Applicable rules to the play are as follows:

A player (or players) jumping in the air has not legally gained possession of the ball until he satisfies the elements of a catch listed here.

Rule 8, Section 1, Article 3 of the NFL Rule Book defines a catch:
A forward pass is complete (by the offense) or intercepted (by the defense) if a player, who is inbounds:
(a) secures control of the ball in his hands or arms prior to the ball touching the ground; and
(b) touches the ground inbounds with both feet or with any part of his body other than his hands; and
(c) maintains control of the ball long enough, after (a) and (b) have been fulfilled, to enable him to perform any act common to the game (i.e., maintaining control long enough to pitch it, pass it, advance with it, or avoid or ward off an opponent, etc.).
When a player (or players) is going to the ground in the attempt to catch a pass, Rule 8, Section 1, Article 3, Item 1 states:
Player Going to the Ground. If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass (with or without contact by an opponent), he must maintain control of the ball throughout the process of contacting the ground, whether in the field of play or the end zone. If he loses control of the ball, and the ball touches the ground before he regains control, the pass is incomplete. If he regains control prior to the ball touching the ground, the pass is complete.

Rule 8, Section 1, Article 3, Item 5 states:
Simultaneous Catch. If a pass is caught simultaneously by two eligible opponents, and both players retain it, the ball belongs to the passers. It is not a simultaneous catch if a player gains control first and an opponent subsequently gains joint control. If the ball is muffed after simultaneous touching by two such players, all the players of the passing team become eligible to catch the loose ball.

ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz- - - - - -- ------- - - - -- -

flat line

_____________________________________

Kazaam,

thanks for finding the sources in the rule book that justify the call that everyone in the world except for you and me thinks was wrong; i don't care if 2 billion cninese and 1.5 billion hindus and sikhs claim that is was an interception, as you stated the NFL justified the TD call based on its rulebook but in a coondescending move stated that there was PI against sam from UM. as stated, nobody has ever called PI on a last play hail mary which ar all scrumes in and near the goal line, and it didn't look like much of a push by golden tate as sam from UM took a dive to get a flag which was never gonna be thrown in this situation. i am sure Big Baby doesn't mind that you informed him of the NFL actually declared on the issues of the catch and the push.

i was brave enough to go on the air at about 9:50 this morning on the show of a former dophin TE with the presentation of the facts the way we saw them, and suffered the non-indignation of having the blind and stupid and uninformed repeatedly call me an "a**clown"; when idiots berate me i gloat, which i will be trying to work on this Yom Kippur (work on non-gloating, that is). anyone who saw what happened and knows the possession rule and still thinks that was a bad call, which includes some of our good friends here, are being as stubborn as we are about what happened, difference being we are correct and they aren't. signing off for the day of atonement, hope your sister is doing okay with the new faith, and wishing all to be inscribed for a blessed year.

That was an AP report smart guy.

Basically the NFL is hedging they don't want to say the call was incorrect because it makes them look bad they would rather point to the PI call because it was obvious.

A better way to explain it to the mentally challenged is this - the defender secured the ball in the air but that doesn't give him possession. Had he dropped it as he hit the ground or it slipped loose before he made a 'football move' establishing possession, it obviously wouldn't have been an interception.

Well the offensive player did grab the ball second, but that doesn't matter because he grabbed it before the defensive player had established possession. When they hit the ground they both had it.

Tie to the offensive player.

and I'm still in a deep coma.

ZZZZzzzzzz....___________ snoring now_____

soon to be on REM sleep zzzzzzzzzz

A better way to explain it to the two high functioning retards on the blog - Go Dolphins!

OC Dolphin, good friend:

thanks for finding the 1972 gold medal game. yes the ending was highway robbery, but here are some factors in why the USA lost even before belov's basket:

1. the soviet coach was a member of the tribe, and the most successful coach in the history of russian and international basketball.

2. the USA kept on using hank iba of oklahoma a & m, a believer in slow, plodding basketball that was the standard throughout the world but not the way that most american collegiate players were accustomed to.

3. probably the biggest factor in the americans even being in a tight game with the russians was that the centers of that team were second rate- tom mcmillen of maryland and tom burleson of n.c state. bill walton, the greatest amateur player in the world at the time, boycotted the national team in protest of the war in vietnam. had walton decided to play it would have been a completely different story-maybe; when the russians came over for a series against americans after the olympics, walton did play- for about 4 minutes until he went up to put in a lob and got lowbridged by the russkis, and missed the rest of the series. they would have done the same to him in the olympics.

hank iba picked all defensive-oriented players, except for the high-scoring doug collins, which played right into the russians' hands.

it was nice to see eddie ratleff of long beach state, one of my all-time favorites being interviewed about the game. i would state that he was the best-all around player on that team

be back tomorrow night after the holy dayand we'll see if a few opiniuons hav changed about last night. two that won't are mine and Kazaam's.

shadow I don't think that you are an As* Clown :)


˙ʇuǝɯǝʇɐʇs sıɥʇ pɹɐƃǝɹsıp uǝɥʇ ǝɯ ʇnoqɐ ƃuıʞןɐʇ ʇou ɹnoʎ ɟı ǝsɹnoɔ ɟo˙˙ǝɯ ʇnoqɐ ƃuıʞןɐʇ ǝɹ,noʎ ǝsɐɔ uı ʇsnɾ uoɹoɯ pǝpɹɐʇǝɹ ǝɥʇ ǝɹ,noʎ 'ɯɐɐzɐʞ

Just heard former head Ref Jerry Austin, who was in the booth during the game said, it was and Int. The mistake was made by the replay offical, who should of over turned the call. The ref. should of gone to the 2 guys and asked what they saw, he did not. The guy who called the play, has been doing high school, and junior college games. Everybody I heard on tv today, players, coaches, tv people on the sidelines, all said the guy INT the ball. You can bet your life if this was Dallas,Giants,Pats,Ravens,Eagles, teams with strong owners, and not some fly over state with a bunch of owners, there would be hell to pay on Park ave.

Well the pass interference was missed, but otherwise the ruling is correct. No catch in the air means a simul reception.

I would like the refs back, but until they agree to no pension they are not coming back.

Now the NFL needs to make some process changes to help the less capable refs.

As far as never calling o-pass intf on hail mary plays, Austin also said that blatent play by Tate should of been called.

Big Baby,

i think that it was a psychological projection on the part of both the show's host and producer.

thanks for the kind words.

PS Greg Cote should be fired and forced to start his own league where he can compensate Refs however he desires. Good luck with that.

Naples jack,


my high school principal, jim tunney, was the first buff NFL referee superstar. he was doing the game with the holy roller-raiders vs. chargers, and if i am not mistaken, also called the phantom roughing the passer call against the grogan/cunnignham patriots that was as bogus as the holy roller. don't take former refs to be authoritive when they can be phil luckett r jim tunney-types. ask don shula about tunney who was the ref (i believe) of the game where a missed field goal by don chandler cost shula's colts a playoff game when it was called good. or norm shacter, another high school principal, who allowed the 68 bears five downs and cost the rams of george allen a potential playoff spot. they make many mistakes, as we have seen through the years.

So the government should get out of the business of student loans and scholarships? Research grants? Space exploration? Tax incentives?

Maybe we should copy the Haitian model of no government at all. After all look what it's done to the Haitian economy.

Kazaam no wonder you can't see worth a shit. Is this your picture?

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRDkItN5Ej_JxvLMW9KxueHPtP4YTT-SUxQEAFWhUEmaYfHA8NfuA

Et tu Shadow?

Kazaam, where in the video does it show that Tate had his hands on the ball? When the geezer who called it a TD showed up the two of them were on the ground wrestling for it. I don't know if you're being stubborn for stubborn's sake or you are blind, or you're a moron.

Limpdick - Go Dolphins!

Yep, this incompetent display of officiating is what happens when you hire non union labor.

Wassup Kaz, how was your trip? You saw a great game in Baltimore. I hope you had time to try some of the crab cakes. The Canes game was the best. The last time I enjoyed a game like that was at the last time we beat Florida in the OB with Berlin at QB when we made the fourth quarter rally. My buddy was sitting next to me in the end zone and left in the third quarter, he had to sneak back into the game when we rallied.

Jack the Naple - if there was no Seahawks receiver in the area and the defender had secured the ball in the air and it squibbed out when he hit the ground, would it still be an interception?

There's your answer - we all understand what possession is in the NFL but for some reason people (including sports analysts like Cote and countless others) think there's some other definition when two players are going for the ball.

The Packers defender reeled it in first but both players had their hands on the ball when they landed, establishing possession.

Tie to the receiver.

Glad that the outrage is there though, hopefully we'll get the real refs back before next Sunday.

My understanding is that the replay guys aren't refs but NFL office guys. They could've over ruled the replacement refs on the field, but didn't. If this is so, you idiot posters are victims of a slow news day.

The review isn't the issue, most agree that there's not enough to overturn a call like that but believe that the wrong call was made initially. That possession can be established midair with zero feet inbounds.

Moron, for it be simultaneous possession both players have to "equally have caught the ball." Geez Kazaam, you don't come here for the stimulating intellectual conversation do you.

You can't put quotes around nonsense you just make up Limpdick.

And you can't compensate for being blind. May I suggest you get one of those white canes with the red bottom.

How long are you guys going to keep on talking about the same shit, just wondering.

Oye Woodcock, don't you know by now that Kazaam is not happy until he takes the opposite point of view on all arguments and pisses everybody off?

Rule 8 - Section 3 - Article 1 - Item 5: Simultaneous Catch. If a pass is CAUGHT SIMULTANEOUSLY by two eligible opponents, and both players retain it, the ball belongs to the passers. It is not a simultaneous catch if a player gains control first and an opponent subsequently gains joint control. If the ball is muffed after simultaneous touching by two such players, all the players of the passing team become eligible to catch the loose ball.

This is the operating phrase, meatball, both players have to "catch the ball" Tate had his hands on the ball and on the defender's arm. Where in the rule does it say that the arm is part of the ball?

The operating phrase is 'control of the ball', (not 'most control of the ball'). If Tate's left hand was on the ball the entire time, and it looks like it is in the replay, then he has as much 'control' as the defender who had both hands on it.

Call could have gone either way, the refs could have also said Tate's left hand came off and the defender had control first, and the NFL would have released an explanation confirming the call and citing the same rules.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpV5xIJax4s

Watch LeBron James not dunk the ball.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT-zhe-5ORA

Riiiiiiight! Wow, what a nerd.

So much of today's argument by who shadow points to as himself and Kazaam vs. the 99% is solely based by them on the NFL rule book. Yet the very source of their conclusion (the rule book) is conveniently disregarded when applying it to the glaring offensive interference which would, by their argument in following the rules, would nullify that final play.

You cannot have it both ways, fellas. If you wish to base your conclusion on a set of rules, then you must apply those same set of rules throughout.

"They never call calls in any hail marys" cannot be found under any Rule, Section, Article or Item within the same set of rules you both apply to form your argument.

Green Bay won that game. Pure and simple.

why is everyone bashing the refs ... the ones from previous years made bad calls as well.... every game, every weeks just as bad as these..... the more rules the NFL puts in the worse it gets, every year gets worse.... its a contact sport, if the NFL nor the players want contact then try playing Tennis...!!!!

It's not Shadow or my argument, it's the NFL's. I just understood what their release said, unlike most fans and reporters.

That release also said that the refs missed the blatant offensive PI, of course Green Bay got robbed, but without the PI that was a legitimate toss up call.

It doesn't matter that the Green Bay defender secured the ball in the air, what matters is if the Seattle receiver had his left hand on the ball throughout the play. Ref said yes, could have gone either way, couldn't have been overturned.

Why should the officials be tar and feathered?That s like saying Oakland or other crummy NFL teams should be as well.Because you are lousy or not experienced....it s impossible to act like you are playing in a Super Bowl.These refs are barely college refs and they jumped at an opportunity for a job to get paid decent.....skilled or not.Yes the games ARE affected but management doesn t care as the almighty dollar and fans is the ONLY thing that drives the owners.Duhhhhhhh.It s all about maintaining the continous money stream into their wallets....without interruption.Get used to it.....The fans are NOT staying home.

No offense guys, but other then Kazaam,Shadow, Tate, and Pete Carroll, I have not heard one other person, player, analyst, former NFL ref., sports writers, President, anybody, other then the NFL league office,(and they had to back up the call), say it was the right call. Like I said before, if this had happened to a team with a strong owner, there would of been hell to pay on Park Ave tuesday morning.

If one takes the average salary of the 22 players on the field at any time, the refs are eclipsed in about 90 seconds. Players are getting hundreds of millions of dollars to play a game that has rules. PLAY BY THE RULES! It's bad there are 30+ penalties CALLED in some games, but the way these "pro" players are playing, there should be at least two flags on every play! Amateur refs should be able to officiate a pro game where the players actually play by the rules. I say penalize the "pro" players who can't or won't play according to the rules.

Kazaam, is wrong, as usual, Naples. The boy just has a knack for it. Nothing but mashed potatoes between his ears. Wassup Kaz!

Jack the Naple - the only part of the call that's questionable is whether Tate's left hand was stuck to the ball throughout the play. The refs said it was, in which case both players had possession and the tie goes to the receiver.

I don't know one way or the other if the left hand was on there and if it was therefore the 'right call', I just understand the explanation the NFL gave, unlike all those 'analysts' out there.

Like I said, outrage over the missed PI is fair but the catch itself really was a toss up, the rules for possession don't change when two people are going for it.

"What giants?" asked Sancho Panza.
"Those you see over there," replied his master, "with their long arms. Some of them have arms well nigh two leagues in length."
"Take care, sir," cried Sancho. "Those over there are not giants but windmills. Those things that seem to be their arms are sails which, when they are whirled around by the wind, turn the millstone."

in case anyone is interested in football, here is a good article from the PBP on T-Hill and being "paciente" with the kid.

http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/thedailydolphin/2012/09/26/talking-points-miami-dolphins-will-have-to-live-with-ryan-tannehills-growing-pains/

Ah, let me ask you something meatball, is a catch reviewable by instant replay? In this case, based on the new rules for what constitutes "a catch" the receiver must maintain possession after the catch and he must make a "fooball move" after the catch for it to be deemed a catch. In this scenario based on the actual facts, the only two possible outcomes were an interception by the defense or an incomplete pass. I either case it would have resulted in a Packers victory. The league's statement is just covering their ass, Kaz.

No one can make a 'football' move when two players are landing with their hands on the ball.

There's no way in hell that's an incompletion and it's only an interception if Tate's left hand came off at some point. Refs said it didn't and you can't see it on the replay.

Catch was a tossup that went the Seahawks way but the refs should have seen the PI and given the Packers the victory.

"The Miami Dolphins are on the clock."

RastaNewYorkJew must be a Jets fan troll no?

NFL proposed rule change (currently under consideration)
Rule 8, Section 1, Article 3, Item 1a

Under a Hail Mary pass condition, any player on offense or defense shall have equal right to the ball. No penalty or penalties shall be assessed by any official on the field. Players may pile on, pull, rip, gouge or apply whatever means necessary to secure the ball. The completion shall be awarded to the last player who remains standing, so long as the following items were not used during the play: a) pitchforks, knives, billy clubs, guns, and or rubber chickens. b) fans may enter the field of play and provide assistance to players only after five players remain standing.

I am not a guy who gloats when any player gets hurts no matter who he plays for, but after hearing what Reggie Bush had to say about the Jets and there coach, shame on them. To bad Revis, "What goes comes around". Could not happen to a better team.

ESPN is reporting that referees are close to agreeing to a new deal may be back on field for games this Sunday.

Naples what is this hot pepper thing the Jets and their coach were talking about with Reggie before the game do you know?

Yeah I read that still don't get the hot sauce reference or what it means.

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