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April 28, 2010

Michael Beasley's Heat future (with poll); in defense of Jeff Ireland (with poll); 'Run Ricky Run' a letdown & more

1aabeas SHOULD BEASLEY BE A PART OF HEAT'S FUTURE?: Miami's season is done and so the real season is close to starting. The Big Summer. The major remodeling. All eyes will be on whether Dwyane Wade re-signs and what big gun (Chris Bosh?) is hired to partner up with him. But Michael Beasley (pictured) is the other big question, and our poll subject here. Has he played his last game for the Heat? (Do you hope he has?) His two-point disappearance last night -- and not leaving the bench the entire second half of an elimination game -- suggests his Miami future is on trembling ground. I've been a too-soon-to-give-up-on-him guy, but am beginning to really wonder. Take a dip in our poll and expound.

[Note: No. 3 is No. 6: Dwyane Wade finished sixth in 2009-10 NBA jersey sales according to new figures from the league, following (in order) Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Kevin Garnett, Derrick Rose and Dwight Howard. Rounding out the top 10 after Wade: Chris Paul, Paul Pierce, Kevin Durant, Carmelo Anthony].

[Blognote: The poll that follows, and the one on Jeff Ireland below that, are the latest in our blog to blast past 1,000 votes the first day of release. Thanks, again, to all!]

1aabeas2 LAY OFF JEFF IRELAND A BIT, OK?: [Click here for my full column on this, newly online and shipping to Thursday's pulp edition]. It came out that Dolphins GM Jeff Ireland, in a pre-draft interview with receiver Dez Bryant, asked Bryant if his mother was a prostitute. The politically correct outrage that has followed -- "Oh the (lack of) humanity!" -- and that forced a public apology from Ireland has been comical. I thought it to be an overreaction on the face of it. I think a club preparing to give $15-20 million in guaranteed money to a player with controversial baggage has every right to probe that person. Also I didn't think the question was all that off-the-wall considering Bryant's mother Angela had done 18 months in jail for drug trafficking. Upon investigation I think the question was legitimate given that the conversation led to it (see column). Ireland's question might have been clumsy, too direct, but given Bryant's background and the context of the interview I don't think it was egregiously unfair. Dear Athletes: If you come from backgrounds that raise questions about your less-than-tranquil upbringing, you might anticipate being asked some of those questions. Even the ones put bluntly. You might not agree. Take a dip in our poll, then say why. 

1aabeas3 'RUN RICKY RUN' DISAPPOINTING: I must say I was a bit disappointed in the ESPN documentary on Dolphin Ricky Williams that aired for the first time Tuesday night. You know what I mean? Maybe it's that we in South Florida have sort of lived the story and know it pretty well, arguably too well. Maybe it's that so much of Run Ricky Run was from five, six years ago. It just felt dated to me. Rehash-y. Nothing in it made me think, "Really? Wow. I didn't know that." Another factor, for me, is that I'm about done with the overindulging of Ricky's tortured search for self-enlightment. Not sick-of-it done. Just past-it done. I mean, move on, yes? He's an intriguing character of unusual depth -- especially for an athlete, and in the context of the NFL -- but please don't make us feel guilty if we'd sort of prefer at this point to think of him as a running back. Is that OK?

1aacollinsd 1aacollinsb COLLINS GETS THE BOOTSY: (A reaching reference to Bootsy Collins). Power-forward Dwayne Collins, only NBA Draft-eligible Miami Hurricane, sneaks into an ESPN.com top-100 prospects list at 85. He's seen as late-second-rounder-to-more-likely-undrafted. He has the body at 6-8 and 240, but is undersized for power-forward and slow for small forward, with underdeveloped offensive skills. Best case? He develops into a Udonis Haslem type who makes somebody's roster as a rebounding role guy. Pictured: the Collinses, Bootsy and Dwayne.

FOR THOSE WHO PARK LIKE AN A--HOLE: Saw an idiot's car in the Publix lot straddling the white stripe, his SUV intentionally glomming two parking spaces. I'm not a criminal or mean, so keying his car is out. But it's annoying, so here's the solution. Visit youparklikeanasshole.com and print an admonishment to stick under the perp's windshield wiper. You'll feel better and he'll feel like, well, you know.

THE LIST: HIGHEST HEAT DRAFT PICKS: Grading the players drafted in the top 10 overall in franchise history, listed in order of earliest selection:

2nd   Michael Beasley, 2008 (C-minus so far)

4th   Glen Rice, 1989 (A)

5th   Steve Smith, 1991 (B)

5th   Dwyane Wade, 2003 (A-plus)

9th   Rony Seikaly, 1988 (B-plus)

9th   Willie Burton, 1990 (C-minus)

10th   Kurt Thomas, 1995 (D)

10th   Caron Butler, 2002 (B)

Twitter.com/gregcote

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On to today's topics..

Beasley is just a pup..he needs time to develop, I'll keep him for a little while longer, remember he would only be in the second year in college.

on the Ireland flap, I don't really have a problem with it, the question could have been asked a little bit different, but everyone is to sensitive nowdays..for those of you that are calling for him to be fired or calling him a racist, get a life, all of us and I mean ALL OF US have said something to someone that have regretted the moment it came out of our mouths...

On to the draft.. I think the dolphins did a great job of drafting.

we are a lot younger and a lot faster on the defense plus we got a stud OG to solidify the offensive line, the defense will take to jell but they will be very , very good.

a lot of people are trashing the Tuna and his helpers...that's nonesense, this guys know what they are doing , the talent level has been upgraded tremendously..

IN TUNA I TRUST.

Parcell's and staff are doing a terrific job.

Can't believe you are so wrong about the Ireland question, as you fail to realize a pattern of insensitivity that is costing this team talent and fans. Do you realize that this is the same stuff that Ireland used that caused us to lose FA safety from the Steelers in free agency? Do you think is good business for Percells to try to cut out agents in negotiations and when players such as JT don't agree to get rid of their agents, then the Phins take the offer off the table and let the player go? Add to that the way they treated Zach T as he left our organization, and not only do they have a PR nightmare with fans and the league, but they will have a problem if they already don't with agents who do not want to bring their players to a team that will try to get the player to dump the agent. Bad business....

your poll answers are too extreme

Hey pramis, the dolphins are running a business, they make decisions on players based on how productive they are, the dolphins have been horrible the last ten years because of the people we had in charge of personnel , let me ask you a question, do YOU prefer wannny cluless or rick spielman or saban or cam/ muller to be in charge of the dolphins?.....

when Tuna & Ireland took over they made a sound business decision to get rid of all the old players and built this team the right way, in just three years they have improved the talent level on this team by a lot, Ireland is one of the best young general managers out there, as for your comment on the steeler's free safety, he was playing the dolphins, he just wanted to go back where he was more comfortable...

I for one love the fact the dolphins are in very capable hands, you should too.

IN TUNA & IRELAND I TRUST.

Cote- Got to love your backing Ireland with his question to Bryant. If that got out about Belichick asking a question like that, you and your PC correct buddy Lebetard, would go nuts. Thats the trouble with you silk panty wearing liberals. Do as I say, not as I do. Even I, think that is out of line.

Ireland's job is to put together the best pro football roster possible. He isn't the team spokesman. I didn't see any problem what so ever with the question. He actually had the BALLS to ask what the other teams were wondering.

Beasley isn't top NBA talent and still very immature. He will be a fine role player off the bench once he gains some maturity. Heat were eliminated by a better & more dominate team. Find a way to resign Wade and add a bigger & physical presents to compliment his finesse game. Continue to develope Beasley till his contract runs out, then re-assess whether you want to keep him.

Haven't seen any of the "Ricky" movie. Didn't expect a whole lot of it. Stick to being a football player, it IS what your good at. I really don't care WHY he quit his team, his fans, his city, etc. I do hope the guy has a healthy and long life well after he retires from football.

Ireland hasn't killed anyone or tortured dogs. I say we give him a warning is all.

It's not that I think Beasley is a bust, because he's too talented. He's no Olowokandi or Milicic, but I don't think he's a good fit in the Heat's system.

You put Bosh, Amare or Boozer out there vs the Celtics, and it's very likely that we win. Ultimately, I think Beasley is traded either at the draft or for a good asset along with a horrible contract. (Darren Collison / Emeka Okafor, for example)

FBZ - you liked the first two picks? A hybrid DT/DE when they needed a nose and a lesser OLB when Kindle was available?

And you're wrong about the Dolphins head office, sure it's a business and they're expected to be heartless and a little cloak and dagger - but at the end of the day it's all about results and at this point their arrogance is hurting the team. They currently have two gaping holes at OLB and FS because they didn't treat their best free agent targets with an ounce of respect.

Pramis - the Dolphins treated Zach Thomas uncharacteristically well. It's clear he was a "Parcells guy" but they didn't trust his health, so instead of shipping him off to the highest bidder like they did with JT, they gave him his release with a nice little press release on his contributions to the franchise and allowed him to go wherever he wanted.

Jimbo - Beasley is a top NBA talent, he just isn't a top NBA player yet because his mentality and knowledge of the game haven't caught up to him yet. If he had stayed in college, he would still have all of next year to prepare himself for the NBA, so you really have to wait until after 2012, which should be his rookie year, to say he's not a top NBA talent.

Yeah I would like to view Ricky as a runningback without an inkling of guilt because HE IS A RUNNINGBACK! What he does when he's not playing for the Fins is of little concern to me...

OBVIOUSLY.... WE CANT DRAFT WORTH A F**K !!

Maybe Ireland doesn't need a warning so much as a heads up to the omnipresent eye in the sky and it's tendency toward Victorian assessments of political correctness.

Bosh, Amarie or Boozer. Pleeeeez. Davis, Perkins and Garnett would have pounded them into submission. Miami had no answer for Rondo or the Big Three. Silly Heat fans.

all I heard watching last nights games was...
"RAYYYYYYYY Allen THREEEEEEEE" again and again.
BigBaby is correct,, the Heat need more then 1 new player. Go out and get just ONE more player and see your team go out 3-1 in the first rd again... Without Wade's career playoff night in game 4 they woulda been swept.

Dedicated to Jimbo and the rest of us Zonk groupies. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQ_vHLUrTQ0

mike1,

INTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

B.E.E.S,

cmon- "if beasley would have stayed in college..."; as john wall will find out this year, it is the rare bird who plays one year in college and gets into gear quickly in the NBA. durant and derrick rose were pretty good in year two, beasley was terribly inconsistent and sat on the bench for the entire second half of an elimination game!! beasley might need a change of scenery, or if he stays with the heat, a solid commitment from the team to have him as the sixth man, where he can score (needed badly by miami) and have his other shortcomings overlooked. there have been many, many one dimensional players who come off the bench for points and with a little confidence, as you have stated, he has the talent. cazzie russell, freddie brown, vinnie the microwave of detroit, bob mcadoo in his later years with the lakers (granted he was a scoring machine when he was young), all contributed points primarily to their clubs while lacking on defense and rebounding.

Here's some interesting archival reading. http://miamimigraine.blogspot.com/2007/05/architect.html

R Duke..

man that film about old zonk was great ...great memories for me, I went to every home game in 1972, was 19 at the time, we used to pay 2.50 per ticket to sit in the end zone at the OB.

Black eyed...I think the first two picks are terrific, plus the safety in the fifth round could be a steal..just like everyone of these players, only time will tell.

r. duke,

joe thomas was an awesome architect of teams, as the article so aptly describes. his bert jones/roger carr... colts were a nice bunch; my only complaint was that lydell mitchell was given the ball a lot and he was slow, small, weak, and unproductive when all the other offensive components were space age. and to think that the steelers were criticized for passing him over and taking franco harris!!! travis minor was better than lydell mitchell- i'll check but i figure that he averaged about 3,5 yds/carry and 8 per catch with not very many TDs as he couldn't overpower anybody at the goal line- ladanian tomlinson he wasn't.

r. duke,

lydell mitchell-3.9 per run, 8.7 per catch and 30 TDs running in 8 seasons!! he did catch 17 TD passes though.

Cum Cummings was the best. Kicked lydell mitchell's butt every week.31 TDs in 7 seasons and 18 TD passes..until he went on an ether binge.....

L. Flynt,

a bad year for alex ovechkin, don't you think? bad olympics, no-show in the opening round loss to montreal, only thing left is for him to be exposed for steroid use. got a place for him in your magazine or pushing you around in the wheelchair in his current off-season?

I wouldn't call ovechkin a "no show". I do prefer C. Love to push the levitra special for me.

the thing with beasley is he's never been the 2nd option his whole life up until now. he's never learned to play with a team. the team always has had to play with him. now he's not the most talented guy on the team and is having trouble adjusting to it. if he were on a sacremento or new jersey or some other bottom feeder team he'd be averaging 20 plus pts and 10 rebs a game. Its the coaches fault to not coach him up. and his for not studying film enough and letting a couple missed shots affect his play defensively and hustle plays. it was a POOR move to not let him play 2nd half but let Jermaine Oneal play when he had a worse series than Beasley. Beasley showed up the 2 games in Miami. He should be the 6th man and play most of his minutes when Wade is off the floor so the offense can be ran thru him and he doesnt have to be the 3rd or 4th option to score. because for some reason Coach Spo runs plays for Oneal and Richardson who are past their prime before Beasley the only other player on the squad who can create his own shot at any given moment besides Wade. Terrible coaching affects progression. granted beasley needs better work ethic but its not entirely his fault he's been a disappointment.

shadow, Joe Robbie may not have been able to pay three million dollars to keep Csonka, Kiick and Morris but he should have handed Joe Thomas a blank check to keep him on as Architect Extrordinare... FZB glad you liked stroll down memory lane. So many great Csonka runs but the one against St. Louis when he comes with full head of steam and lifts defender off ground and tosses him aside with forearm remains one of my favorites.

Architect Extraordinare.

I believe like Freeman McNeil, Lydell Mitchell probably saved his best games for when he played against the Dolphins.

Whoops meant Robbie not able to keep Csonka, Kiick & Warfield. Sorry Mr. Warfield I just gave Merc your million dollar contract. I must have been preoccupied by Dolphin running game and forgot they tossed the ball to #42 now and then.

Darren Sharper ?

If we had drafted Dez Bryant we never would have heard the Ireland story. Dez is just pissed we passed on him. F him.

That being said, Ireland and The Tuna are idiots for passing on Dez. We gave up a potential impact player that would have made our offense one of the most feared in the league for what? A second string underweight NT and a special teams player?

Shallow people have a very difficult time understanding, much less appreciating, the depth of people like Ricky Williams. This documentary revealed the man as a genius intellectually with profound insights concerning spiritual growth. He is an inspiration to rise above the petty desires so common in these days of trivial pursuits and superficial goals.

The hour was a breath of fresh air in a suffocating media environment. This combination of physical, intellectual and spiritual strength in one man is truly extraordinary. The filmmaker made a great documentary revealing Ricky's journey.

yeah ok, whatever. Stick to the point professor. Most fans just want him to stay clean and run the darn ball.

So tell me, does walking away from a multi million $ contract, ignoring your child support payments and somehow ending up broke and in financial debt constitute genius?

If the shoe fits wear it. His physical and spiritual health were and are more important than his financial health. He's still a millionaire by the way. Ricky said he recognizes how his actions have hurt others, especially his children, and he is making amends for it. It appears that today he is a better father than most professional athletes. He is a kind, thoughtful and generous man while being there for them.

What is it about seeking truth and growing spiritually that is so difficult to grasp? Many obviously look at how Ricky's actions have affected their entertainment, not how he has grown as a person. Watch this documentary and you might learn something of value.

boys,

ricky williams is a very decent human being whose efforts to find himself by puffing were hurtful to the teams for which he played. no, we didn't like it when he left the team to do his inner self thing, but he is not arrogant, has a brain and can speak from his rather masive heart. he has always, to these eyes, given the max while on the field into his advanced years on the athletic scale. if 2010 is his last season, and he remains healthy, miami will get its money's worth plus. in an era of ben roethlisberger, plaxico burress, ray lewis, rae carruth and the like, he stands out in a positive way. when he's done here, hang up #34 so that we can remember both ricky and cecil the diesel, who i hope has gotten it together. for all his many troubles, he was a nice fellow and no lawrence philips.

The thing about Beasley is outward demeanor. If he were to change his attitude, and fulfill his potential, hew ould be a serious weapon. During this his 2nd year, he has been making excuses instead of just playing up to his abilities. Trade him now before he loses more value.

Beasley isnt making excuses Jopefer, he says that its the coaches decision and thats where the problem is....What people and the coach dont get is that Beaseley didn't have to earn his minutes or any of that like some other players have to (Ex:Haslem)...You selected him 2nd overall to play, how in the world is your second leading scorer in the series, no matter how "bad he is playing" not in the game?!?!? No one in the organization respects Beasley, and i'll he's done is do what he is told, not even Wade respects him...He'll flourish and be a great player with another team, unless we get a real coach....

I didn't know the Heat hired Eric Estrada to coach. hmmmph, go figure.

Here, Here shallow Jimbo. Hey you want depth read Heidegger.

OH yeah what's Ricky written besides his resignation from team. Maybe if I cracked open one of his books I could be filled with the ah.. amazement.

Ah if Ricky is the second coming I know he will forgive me my ignorance and arrogance and heal me of my torment right Ricky? Whatta ya say bud?

Mr Beasley needs more cleavor tatoos to elevate his status. Mr Beasley.... wasn't the little girls dolly on Mr French?

Seriously Ricky seems by all indications to be a likable sort with more substance than the avg bear. Good for him and those in relationship to him but Freetruth try to appreciate many of us really are only concerned with his contribution to the Dolphins success.

Jimbo I actually like Sissy, Buffy & Jodie's older sister...

now U R on to something Duke.

By far the worst draft since the Wanstache days. Anybody who thinks otherwise is completely clueless and just love to believe the crap this organization spews to you every year. None of you morons that are backing Ireland up now have a friggin clue who any of our picks were this year. Instead of asking about peoples moms he should of been asking more football related questions. This draft has set us back ladies. Jared Oderick, HAHAHA thats funny!!

set US back? R U part of the team?

cubancane.
all joking aside, you won't know how your draft works in a season or two or five.

To Greg Cote: How can you say the words - Give Jeff Ireland a break or lay-off him. This guy deserve every bit of critism he gets. Dez Byrant the person has not had a shady past - no criminal background - No drug abuse - Just a kid that was born into foolish - He graduate from high school, went to a Big 12 college now a 1st round draft pick - sounds like he done something right. look the NCAA ruling and meaningless probes into althetes family lives are a joke just like YOU -RUN GREG RUN - You get a low rating. Again at lease Ricky got a story tell - how about you - Don't hear it

Jimbo - it's going to take you 5 seasons to realize that Ted Ginn was a bad pick?

The expectation of a first round pick is that they can come in and contribute from day one. If they aren't contributing in the first year, then that was a bad pick for your team.

Tom, I can't agree with your take over the 12th pick. Taking a WR with your first pick is risky at the very least. The team has already been burned once with that approach. However, let's assume that Dez is the real deal. Sure, that would have added more firepower, but to what end?

I can think of a few reasons right off the bat as to why that would not have been a good idea; Marshall gets less reps, gets to be less of "the" man, thus tempting possible petulance; more offense is by itself, never the answer (see Chargers, Colts, Marino Dolphins, before establishing a strong defense). In the case of Marino's team, they never got one and paid dearly.

Lastly, few could argue that a second year Henne, healthy Ronnie/Ricky, healthy backup by Pennington, AND a new receiver who is a man playing among boys will not be an improvement over last year's offense.

In my opinion, the team drafted perfectly this year. They're laying the groundwork and creating an incredibly competitive atmosphere which will have survivors eating fire and crapping thunder.

OC Dolphin - I'm with you in that the Dolphins should have spent their first two picks on defense, but I'm not at all impressed by the players they chose. I'd rather have the Ravens first two picks, each of which was chosen after the respective Fins pick.

Still, they made the right move by moving back to reclaim their second round pick.

B.E.E.S.,

didn't get a response to your idea of the best point guard ever; i am sticking with john stockton and steve nash, as magic was a hybrid play any position player, and west and robertson both played when guards were not locked in to being a "1" or a "2"; i would also throw walt frazier into the cnversation and bob cousy, even though i only saw his lat\st couple of years as a kid and a lot of film where he was dribbling like a man possessed.

Black Eyed,
I too thought Kindle was ideal pick. That was until reports came out that he takes medications for a sleeping disorder. Coaches thought the guy was uninterested as he sometimes would fall asleep during film and classwork.

Conversely, this guy Odrick couldn't wait to get to Miami to practice. Carries a big chip on his shoulders and feels he's the baddest dude in town. That, coupled with his nonstop motor...well, got to feel pretty optimistic.

The non-Cody pick became clear after the brass disclosed that they were aiming to move the defense away from a pure 3-4. Cody would never be the guy under a 4-3.

Gentlemen, I see all the so called experts bash the Tuna & Ireland ......I have a question for you guys.....Do you prefer the dolphins go back to the Wanny days?....or Spielman giving away all our draft picks?...or Cam Moron drafting T Ginn and his family?...

We have the best people in charge of the dolphins since Joe Thomas, look it up, this guys are even better at drafting players than Shula ever was, Shula was a great coach but very average in his personnel decisions, they are building this team the right way .

IN TUNA AND IRELAND I TRUST

OC Dolphin - they're not moving out of the pure 3-4, Nolan just likes to bring pressure from different places, meaning that Yerimiah Bell might have his hand on the ground as the fourth lineman some plays. But Cody would only be on the field for 2 out of three plays and Starks can probably stay in all three downs. Anyway I have more beef with passing over Kindle, I just think he has a bigger upside.

Shadow - even if Magic played multiple positions, he was still as good a passer and small-guard defender as Stockton or Nash - those are the two qualities I'm looking for in a point guard. Besides those three, I'd put Jason Kid in the mix, Pistol Pete for his passing and Isiah for his defense. Best ever I'm going to have to go with Smush Parker.

Cote, you are an idiot for trying to defend the indefensiable Ireland. Your argument does not make sense. I don't give a rat fink, how much money is involved, you cannot degrade a person like that. It goes beyond the realm of human decency. That is what the slave masters use to do to their "niggas" during slavery. Ireland played on Bryant's emotions knowing that he was vuneable because of his mother's past. So what is his mother was a hoe?I bet he would not have asked Tebow if his mother should have had an abortion rather than having had him. One of these days one of these GM is gonna ask an insentive question like that and one of the prospective draft candidate was gonna go postal of their butt. Ireland had better be glad that he was not asking that dehumanizing question to a Ray Lewis, or a Romanaswski or Turley or some of these other crazies that are and or were in the NFL. Goodell should memo these GM and tell them know that they are not only making an ass of themselves but of the league with these kind of insensitive questions. One GM asked a candidate if he wore a G-String or a Jock Strap on the football field. What kind of ucking quesiton is that.

Cote condemns any athlete or celebrity that gets a DUI yet thinks General Manager is allowed to act like a racist, or at the very least an arrogant prick - and both for the same reason, the athletes should be held to a higher personal standard because they're paid so much money yet Ireland should be allowed to have the personal skills of Archie Bunker because he's paying them.

It doesn't matter how much a player gets paid, they still have the right to live their lives. And it doesn't matter how much an organization is paying them, they're only entitled to know things that are relevant to how well a player can play football.

Romanowski ain't right. My God man Ray Lewis isn't as scarey. Romo looks like a biter to me.

Quote the Ditka:

"I think the individual who asked that question, somebody ought to whack him right in the head,you don't ask that question. If you think you know it, you know it. What are you going to confront a young man with that situation for? He probably loves his mother no matter who she is or what she is. Why would somebody do that? I don't understand things like that. Maybe I'm naive, maybe I'm old. I don't understand that. Why? What do you get from asking that question? What's it all about? Every bit of information in the world has to be spread out on the table now? Is that it? Everybody's dirty linen has to be out? I disagree with that. I'm sorry."

Certainly with a bit more hindsight Ireland could have delved into his past by asking more general, less intrusive & insensitive questions (ie What was your home life like growing up? Are you close to your family? Dez please complete this Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory).

michael beasley neads to grow up and he needs to take the game more seriously when wade was out this year he sould have been the go to guy but he regressed him and chalmers need to go and riley better get some good free agents or i would not blame wade for leaving riley has not made a good draft choice since wade all all of his free agents so far lately has been a bust i say riley needs to put up or shut up and if he doesnt get help for wade he needs to go to

Mr. R Duke,
I had the pleasure to see big Larry Little lead Larry Csonka through clear into the secondary, as shown in the clip. Up close and personal at the O-Bowl.
Maybe you didn't catch it, but I was one of the FEW who voted for Larry over Dan and Wade.
Larry WAS the Fins, even more so than Griese, Warfield...but maybe not coach Shula, who should TRULY be at the top of the list, if ALL contributors were eligible.

bill parcells draft choices have notbeen to good the last few years other thatjake long that other draft choices how not been that good merling and langford have been bust vona davis and sean smith just average so far its nice to get smart players that dont get into trouble but the jets draft and free agents are much better than the dolphins we need to draft a young running back and we did not we needed to draft a safety and we just got only one and we need more recievers brandon marchell is great but the rest of the recivers arew just average we have still alot of holes on this team and we have not got the best players we could have if we are lucky is see 8-8 or 9-7 the best we will do until the rest of the team needs are addressed

IMAwriterRobJ your a very lucky man. Csonka was a one of a kind irresistable force. Certainly there have been other bruisers I just like Zonk the best. I did notice, so I'm glad you addressed it, how far down field Little was on some of those longer runs. One against KC(I think it was KC)really stood out on that youtube video. I'm like, "I can't believe Little is in secondary still blocking. Amazing guard. I thought Miami got him from San Diego as FA acquistion but I could be mistaken. I just showed it to a guy I work with who recalls listening to Syracuse games in which Zonk would maul the defenders. After seeing video he wrote back "He really was the best." Others are more fluid, graceful, faster etc But Larry played a dishing out punishment kind of game and he played it very well.

meant "you're a very lucky man." God I hate typos

Dare I say Shula was ESSENTIAL but I think Joe Thomas was equally ESSENTIAL obviously for different reasons.

Black Eyed,
Smush Parker!?!? Man, you do have a sense of humor, don't you.

shadow,

Would you question or subordinate any of these following skills as being most important of a point guard?

a. Responsible for orchestrating the offense.
b. Primarily responsible for bring the ball down the court after a score by the opposition.
c. Skilled at getting his teammates involved and having them effectively contribute.
d. Establish and maintain the optimum pace of the game, to the advantage of his team and conversely, disrupting the pace of the opposition.
e. Essentially act as the team's quarterback.
f. Exude leadership.

While Stockton, and Nash belong in the discussion, there is really only one guy that towered over all of them - Earvin Magic Johnson.

Magic also brought attributes not necessarily required by the position, but nonetheless critical to every great team. The guy wanted the last shot and generally found a way to win. All great players have or have had that - MJ, Bird, Kobe, LeBron, DWade, T. Duncan, etc. Neither Stockton or Nash can claim that quality. But it doesn't even need to come to that.

Dwayne Collins doesn't have Haslem intangibles. The work ethic, effort on the court, basketball IQ all are missing. He's more talented than Haslem, but don't see him being nearly as good a pro. But if he spends a year in Europe like Haslem did maybe it'll motivate him to start to do the little things. Hope so.

and Beasley would have been better off going to a team that didn't already have a star where he could just play through the ups and downs. I say at this point if the Heat can get a decent trade worked out that includes him and maybe Cook they should take it.

OC Dolphin,

i took magic out because he was, as you stated, someone who "towered" over his opponents. i believe that the NBA basically chucked the palming rule because of him and now the "crossover" illegality has become a staple of the game at all levels. i am not arguing with any of your points, but am looking for the "truest" point guard in terms of possessing and passing the ball. the fact that magic could post up, rebound, take old-fashioned set shots on one play and then then drive around bobby jones (all NBA defender),on the next -happened in that famous game six where magic jumped center, if i remember correctly- makes earvin johnson a candidate for greatest all-around player- but at present am looking for a "pure" point guard.

OC Dolphin,

and to address a point you made, jerry west was dubbed "mr. clutch" by the late chickie baby, but #32 took and made a lot of shots at the the end of big games, and his "baby hook" against boston ranks #1 to me among last second game winners. his viral condition lopped a few years off his career, but stockton was leading the NBA in assists even during magic's prime. it is very difficult to argue against the varying combinations of "showtime" as the NBA's greatest teams ever, one's that even bill russell and friends would have had trouble with. the talent accumulated by jerry west was unmatched and is till this day.

I AM NOT A CHUCKER!

Sorry shadow,

Just can't omit Magic from the "pure point guard category." The fact that he could also post up, etc., while certainly adds to his many accomplishments, should not factor in or cause him to be excluded from the "pure point guard" discussion.

Those "a" through "f" skills (and I'll take more if you have them) should be "THE" elements which define a point guard, and not the size of the guard.

If on the other hand, you're asking who was the best point guard not 6"-9", you would have no argument. I just don't see anyone who was better a-f, regardless of other intangibles.

Stockton benefited from Malone's one step baseline J. Every time he tossed it down and Malone spun without taking a dribble he got the assist.

Plus he's white and lame.

And Nowiski is thinking about opting out in 2010 after getting bounced yet again by the Spurs.

He would be the ideal mentor for Mike Beasley, they have the same skill set.

I think your name should be changed to puertoricancane. You are way too dumb to be Cuban.

Sergio Kindle has some knee and character issues,, didn't go until the 2nd round so... everyone passed on him once.

1st rd pick Odrick will start and be in the D line rotation.
2nd rd pick Misi is going to compete for starting OLB
3rd rd pick Jerry is going to compete and probably start at LG.
4th rd pick Edds is going to be a nickle D LB... he had more picks as a LB then any of his teamates that were DB's...5 INT.
Each one of these players will contribute on special teams also.

My pre-draft posts were the team taking S Thomas or LB's Kindle, Morgan, Pierre-Paul. Didn't think that NT Williams was good enough for first rd. Cody has a reputation of being extremely lazy and taking quite a few plays off while on the field.

I grew up in Pa, have some friends that are PSU alumni that attend Nittany Lions games. They rave about Odrick being dominate, hard working, team captain, gym rat, etc. nothing negative.

Only a fool would compare the Trifecta to Wanny, Saban, Cam, Mueller, Spielman.
Every facet of the team has been or is currently being upgraded with LITTLE sentimental consideration...just the way it should be.

Dansby, Marshall were key pickups,, now it is rumored that Miami is making a play for Adalius Thomas OLB if the price is right.

shadow,
Here are some career numbers:

Assists per game:
Stockton 10.5
Nash 8.3
Johnson 11.2

RB:
Stockton 2.7
Nash 3.0
Johnson 7.2

PPG:
Stockton 13.1
Nash 14.6
Johnson 19.5

MPG (an indicator of team value):
Stockton 31.8
Nash 31.2
Johnson 36.7

Jimbo,
I'm on the same page with all that.

OC Dolphin,

one of the requirements for my point guard is to be able to stop at the free throw line when the defense is back and hit a jumper; magic did a lot of driving to the basket because of his immense size and savvy, but a free throw line jumper was not in his bag of tricks. when the fast break was shut off, he waited for KAJ to get downcourt and implement pat riley's only play- the fist up-meaning get the ball to KAJ, ewing, mourning, shaq or whichever big man he possessed. after magic's departure, and even for the last couple of years, stockton led trhe league in assists without the talent around him that the lakers had. eight consecutive seasons leading the NBA in assists and the career record for same is impressive. by no means am i saying that stockton was a better ballplayer than earvin johnson, only that he was, and even according to "a-f", quite good. as far as his team value #, with the rebounds and steals and points that magic johnson had over stockton, #32 in forum blue and gold perforce was better in "MPG".

Jimbo- If there is a God, I hope your Dolphins sign that worthless piece of sh*t, Adalius Thomas. You talk about a useless, locker room cancer, he is the man. He was nothing with the Ravens. As Ray Lewis said when he left,AD wanted them to build more around him. The guy did nothing in New England.

Welcome back, OC. I'm glad that you took time off from posting on Steve Rothaus' Gay South Florida blog to post here. Flamer!

Cunty Cunty Cunty...

Everyone let us not forget zis is the 65th anniversary of 'Dolf's und Eva Braun's unholy matrimony und zuicide! Happy 65th Fuhrer!

HEY DUKEY THE RUSSIANS ARE COMING, THE RUSSIANS ARE COMING! heh heh

Well, if it isn't the idiot Consuelo. Wow! How fresh. A Jets fan insulting total strangers. Child, you sure must have gotten your ass kicked back in school. No wait, you're still in school. No doubt your sister still dresses you up in little girlie clothing just to play house with you?

Listen, prick. Anytime you're in the 92692 area code, just post me a time and place and I'll be right over. You can then tell me that straight to my face. Asshole.

Ahh, that's CUNTsuelo, ass wipe. Flamer.

Eat shit.

OC Dolphin,

the person who is sparring with you using the initials C.C. is a cro-magnon type and unworthy of a response. amongst the habituals who post here we like to keep it free of venom and the drivel that CC puts on the thread. back to sports...

A) have been looking at clips of csonka on youtube and, with no offense to jim brown, the greatest to ever run the ball in the NFL, csonka as a "pure" fullback may have been the more powerful runner; he was bigger than jimmy brown and did not have the breakaway, almost sprinter speed that the browns' great had and displayed. i would say that comparing csonka o brown in the "pure" fullback role would be back to stockton/magic in the pure point guard role. csonka was just about untacklable unless it was a perfect tackle of hanging on to the trailing leg and waiting for him to go down 4-5 yards later. those who took him straight on got knees and forearms that knocked them backwards. BRUTAL WITH A LITTLE HEAD OF STEAM!!

B) walter jones retired today and holmgren called him the best offensive player he has ever coached!! that includes #4 who throws and the shaun alexander who was a really good runner for a couple of years. as vince lombardi said about his offensive tackle forrst gregg "the best player i have ever coached", and as can be said of anthony munoz- the best offensive (and probably just best) player the bengals have ever had. yes, it will always be a game of blocking and tackling, no matter how pass-happy the NFL has become and will become even more so unless there is the natural reaction to go against the grain, as the steelers have done with running and defense (and this is miami's plan for the future also, i would say).

Ummm, ummmm, uhmmmm,um, uummm, "cro magnum, OC. Ummm, ummmm,uhmmm,ummm. Chug, chug, chug. Ok OC, now it's your turn to blow me.


J E T S, Jets, Jets, Jets!

C.C.,

"CRO-MAGNON", although you might be "pro-magnum" in either your drinking habits or desire to share tom selleck's bedroom, as mr. selleck's choice in gender for play has been exposed to be those with XY chromosomes.

OC Dolphin,

jim brown used to use the car wash down the street from the apt. in west hollywood from where he threw one of his girlfriends off a patio; i would see him ther when a hihj-schooler and he didn't seem like he was 6'2" and 232 lbs. as his bios state; could be he lost weight and bulk as this was years after he retired, but even in films he does not look particularly big; csonka looks huge on film.

AFTER FURTHER REVIEW: (courtesy youtube)

JIMMY BROWN WAS BIG WHILE IN THE NFL!! his power and moves are electrifying- barry sanders plus 6 inches of height and 35 pounds of power.

Hey Shadow, you should spread some fromunda on your hands and do shinups on my member.

J E T S, Jets, Jets, Jets!

BEES*
you should consider the talent upgrade by Trifecta this offseason as work in whole....

If you were able to draft exactly who Miami did and add....
WR Dez Bryant & ILB McClain... would that be successful?
Add Dansby & Marshall and you got that,,, 2 young & proven playmakers at those positions.

NaplesJack... I have heard that OLB Thomas isn't a great teamate. I am aware of the rumors of what you described this player to be. He's probably destined to be a Jet.

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