[Thursday afternoon update: It's official. Manny is now being Manny in Los Angeles, not in Boston, not in Miami. He's a Dodger now. The Manny-to-Miami deal did not happen, after all. You know what, though? I give the Marlins credit for what apparently was a very serious effort to make a very significant deal aimed solely at this pennant race and the 2008 postseason. I have crirticized Marlins ownership often over the years for the fire sales and for always seeming to build (cheaply) toward the future rather than playing to win now. The Manny talks were a refreshing change for this club. It didn't work out, apparently. But the good-faith effort was there].
Original post:
Stunningly, ESPN.com's very reliable Peter Gammons first reported Wednesday that the Red Sox and Marlins were in "serious discussions" to trade disgruntled superstar slugger Manny Ramirez to Florida. Gammons more recently called the deal "unlikely," but the fact negotiations continue and the trade remains possible is a major story. The trade deadline is today/Thursday at 4 p.m.
(By the way, I see a colleague evidently liked my "Manny Being Marlin" headline posted here last night enough to borrow it for his lead in today's paper. It's OK, dude. Just buy me a beer).
Reports are the Red Sox also would give up "cash considerations" to offset Manny's enormous salary, while the Marlins would send Jeremy Hermida (or possibly Josh Willingham) to Boston, reportedly along with young pitcher Ryan Tucker and outfield prospect Michael Stanton.
Other possibilities swirl about, including a three-way trade involving the Pirates.
Manny's bat would give the Fish that much more offensive punch for the stretch playoff run, be a statement of serious postseason intentions, and also presumably boost attendance. But how would Manny's mercurial personality play in what is now a very favorable clubhouse chemistry? And do you want to give up three young players for a 36-year-old veteran who'd be a free agent after the season?
For sure Manny would be unlikely to exercise his trade-veto powers, considering he has a home in Weston and his kids are in school down here.
Let's say the deal would be Ramirez and cash in exchange for Hermida or Willingham and a couple of prospects such as Tucker and Stanton. Would you make the trade? Play "Deal Or No Deal." Partake of The Daily Poll and share your reasoning in a comment.
Speaking of the third option above: Can you believe the Dolphins have invited Quincy Carter in for a tryout at quarterback? QUINCY CARTER!? Good Lord. Let's hope this is simply a gesture by a former coach (Bill Parcells) to remind the NFL Carter is still alive and seeking work. Because if this is the Dolphins thinking Quincy Carter may be any sort of upgrade, it means confidence and faith in Josh McCown/John Beck/Chad Henne has reached a critically low level. I mean, seriously.
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Lets see the Marlins weaknesses are C, bullpen, defense and OF speed in general. Their players seem to lack discipline hence leading the league in errors and strikeouts for the 2nd season in a row. Did I mention they could use an IP workhorse to offset their rotation which seems to go 3/5 days w/o reaching the 6th inning?
If anything in sending Hermida they lose a true OF w/ some speed. Willingham should go somehow because he is a Manny light. Then again Willingham and Hermida both have proven poor defensively in the OF.
I do not dismiss the fact that Ramirez is a prodigious hitter but where exactly does he fit the team's needs?
The short is I see this possible trade as accomplishing little more than some slight extra offense at a very expensive price.
Posted by: Russell | July 30, 2008 at 06:51 PM
Yes. Pull the Trigger Baby. Go Marlins.
Awesome Hanley Ramirez and Manny Ramirez LoL
Posted by: Eva Fransicon | July 30, 2008 at 06:52 PM
WOW. Hopefully we get him and win the World Series.
Yes!!!!!!
Posted by: Brandon Buddy | July 30, 2008 at 06:54 PM
OMFG Are your serious Cote. Yes I'm going to go now to stadium yes. Ima call up my hooter friends to join me and we'll fill the seats up for manny!!!
Posted by: Jessica | July 30, 2008 at 06:56 PM
Just what we need. Manny to Fresh-en up our lineup.
Imagine this Lineup
SS H.Ramirez
2B D.Uggla
3B J.Cantu
OF M.Ramirez
1B M.Jacobs
OF J. Willingham
OF C. Ross
C J.Baker
Posted by: Jeffrey Loria | July 30, 2008 at 06:59 PM
This is a ploy to distract the Sox/Phillies discussion and a good one. Larry Beinfest is the man. I would love to see Manny here (for a couple of months) and I'd rather give up Willingham then Hermida, who has a strong arm, speed, and bats lefty. End Result: Manny stays in Boston.
Posted by: Gabo | July 30, 2008 at 07:00 PM
From what I hear and see on ESPN, the Sox are seriously fed up with Manny, who's contract is up at the end of this season. And in return, Manny is sick of the Sox. So, Manny to Miami would be very, very sweet!
Let The Dominican Ramirezs reign in South Florida!
Posted by: Pat | July 30, 2008 at 07:05 PM
I'd really hate to see him go, and I've taken the good with the bad as it relates to Manny being Manny.
He is as pure a a pure hitter gets. He is awesome in my book, and I wish him the best. He's been money against the Yankees since he's been in Boston, and he has been super-clutch in the playoffs and the two world series victories.
If we can get some pitching and defense for him, then so be it, but I'd rather Manny retire a Red Sox.
Maybe it would boost Marlin attendance by say 2,000 per game?!?!? LOL!
Posted by: Kurt | July 30, 2008 at 07:16 PM
not sure about this...big distraction, pretty damn lazy, and his defense, well, sucks. The marlins need an older guy to keep them together during the stretch, not a 36 yr old who acts like a bratty 12 yr old.
Posted by: steve | July 30, 2008 at 07:17 PM
Manny being Manny! maybe when hanley and Cantu get on base they'll have some one who will drive them in. who cares if many cant play defense(neither does josh or jeremy)and he wont be able to HIGH FIVE any one in the outfield! GO GET MANNY !!!!!!
this team seems to win every 5 yrs so this yr is our yr Be'aches !!!
Posted by: BP | July 30, 2008 at 07:21 PM
GREAT DEAL...do it now, willingham and a prospect for manny ramirez and the bo sox take some cash to pay manny's salary as well??? Genius...the marlins would pay little to manny and trade little to acquire him...He would boost attedance and give the marlins an exciting spark and would be great for a playoff run, we know he is a winner, and although he is 36, he still plays the outfield well, he used to be great but he is is still solid and still one hell of a bat with 20 hr and 66 rbi hitting .301, i mean come on, thats a steal of a dealll!!!!!
DO IT...that would make us favorites in the NL east and really help us win the world series again, another big bat never hurt a team even one with good hitters like us, but ppl tend to forget there are days we are dry on hitting and we just suck because our picthing does not always hold up, manny would keep games closer, remember that
GO FOR IT LARRY!!!!
Posted by: JC | July 30, 2008 at 07:22 PM
1 he is a bat..we have bats
2. we need a glove..we need an arm..
3. he is a cancer..did you see him walking to first base to beat out a double play?
Posted by: this is crazy | July 30, 2008 at 07:22 PM
This is one sports fan that is amazed the Marlins are entertaining the thought of picking someone up. Considering the Marlins are known for unloading instead of loading this is amazing.
One serious thought here. Everytime i look at the Hearld front page there is some inocent-usually anyway-person slaughtered on your streets. See today, shop owner gunned, old lady protecting herself during robbery dies of trauma.
What is up with your city??????
Posted by: Jimbo | July 30, 2008 at 07:55 PM
So let's see, we can pay a lazy diva millions for the two months he'd be on the team, or pay the same millions to keep Uggla, Jacobs and our pitchers.
Keep the Marlins as it is, we don't need his AWFUL attitude in our ballclub!
Posted by: Rachel | July 30, 2008 at 08:28 PM
with all-stars mike lowell and josh beckett already sporting red sox uniforms, if i'm marlins' management, i'd steer clear of dealing w/ boston from here on in.
Posted by: dean | July 30, 2008 at 08:30 PM
Look Marlins, if you could pull this trade of it would obvisouly help but come on, we already have a solid offensive team. We need some Bullpen help or maybe even a starting pitcher, lets get real the marlins picthcing needs some experience if they want to make it to the postseason. Pick up a veteran pitcher!
Posted by: Will | July 30, 2008 at 08:33 PM
he will be a rented player for 2 months, plus think he will have to prove he is worth 4yrs 15 mil to another team in the offseason (mets or angels). he will give the marlins the boost they need to pass the mets in the standings and the cubs or brewers a challenge in the nlcs. he will come here motivated.
Posted by: Diaz | July 30, 2008 at 08:36 PM
Isn't part of the reason we traded away Cabrera the fact that he was lazy and was a terrible influence in the clubhouse? Obviously his salary was the main reason. But look what the same Marlins team has done without Cabrera this season. Why would we bring in a more seasoned, professional cancer when we already lead the league in homers? I wouldn't want to lose Hermida and a good pitching prospect for 2 months of Manny being an idiot.
Posted by: Alan | July 30, 2008 at 09:11 PM
I am a Yankees fan living in Miami, I root for Marlins in the NL keeping that in Mind getting rid of manny in the AL would be great for my Yankees. But why would a team with young players that are already in the post season hunt want to bring a player that is a cancer like Manny Ramirez. Trust me Marlins are better off without him, he could end up corrupting some of that young talent that the marlins have and he could be a bad influence on the younger ramirez that plays SS.
Posted by: Nestor | July 30, 2008 at 09:38 PM
We obviously need another arm in our bullpen, but the guys we want are too costly. A deal for Manny would be great if we send Willingham whose hasn't been doing a whole lot since he came back from injury. Sure we also need a catcher, but I'm okay with a Baker and Treanor platoon if we got Manny in our lineup and plus I don't think the catchers we are looking at are a big enough upgrade from what we already got.
Posted by: Charley | July 30, 2008 at 10:24 PM
Getting Manny is a BAD move. He'll destroy the clubhouse chemistry! If we can't get a left handed reliever, stay where we are.
Posted by: gulfbrat | July 30, 2008 at 10:42 PM
I wish the Marlins don't do it. Manny is overpaid ,and will want more after. Manny is good with the bat but he is not good playing the field. Plus he's almost on his way out. He's been playing for 16 years in the Major Leagues. Keep the young prospects Marlins and don't give them Boston Redsox the benefit.
Posted by: ginrai | July 30, 2008 at 11:07 PM
the addition of manny to our already potent lineup should be enough to reach the tipping point that will make this team a legitimate championship caliber contender.
it's a truly unique situation for a small market team like us to be able to make as aggressive as move as this at the trade deadline. i say go for manny + the $7 million from boston and pay up what we have to. i just hope hermida, tucker, and stanton is enough to convince the sox to actually pull the trigger and outbids the dodgers package for manny.
let's go for the pennant!!!
Posted by: GoForIt | July 30, 2008 at 11:07 PM
The Marlins bats are fine. What the Marlins need help more on is fielding defense. They also need some good relievers. To make the playoffs and to win in the playoffs, both scoring runs on offense and good pitching ,and good defense are key.
Posted by: ginrai | July 30, 2008 at 11:35 PM
Instead of going for an old bat that cannot play the field, the marlins need to be going for some solid pitching. If the marlins didnt give up five runs every damn game they would be perfectly fine with the cancer free lineup they have now. I mean, at least these guys run to first on a grounder.
Posted by: Steve | July 30, 2008 at 11:50 PM
If your opponent is quick to anger, seek to irritate him.
Let's go, Flopper!
Feed us more stories about your life in LA with your beautiful wife.
Posted by: the bostonian | July 30, 2008 at 11:52 PM
Is it just me or does a trade for Manny Ramirez make ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE?!? What this team needs is MIDDLE RELIEF and a SHUT DOWN CLOSER not more offense. Manny Ramirez is a big crybaby and more trouble than he's worth to the Marlins. JUST SAY NO TO MANNY!!!
Posted by: miamarlin8 | July 31, 2008 at 12:02 AM
Bottom line, the Marlins need a catcher more than anything. I would prefer giving up a package similar to the one described for Doumit who would be a better long-term building block.
Posted by: JJ | July 31, 2008 at 01:29 AM
No Thank you to Manny. Why get Manny when we could have had a better and younger version in Miguel Cabrera. Honestly this team does not need another bat. Manny is a slacker. sure he'll give you 290 with 30 hrs but i'd rather have the prospect of Tucker possibly being a shut down closer or good start and a young good player in Hermida. Sorry but a deal for Manny would just not make sense for this team.
Posted by: link | July 31, 2008 at 03:56 AM
I would much rather give up Willingham, than Jeremy Hermida That being said, I don't believe this deal gets done.
Posted by: SAVE_US.Y2J | July 31, 2008 at 09:41 AM
I say go for, giving up Hermida rather than Willingham, who always seems to get his biggest hits in the biggest spots. I heard an interview with the GM of the Rays on the radio here in NY a couple weeks ago, and what he said is very true. For teams without the spending power, you have to go for it when you get the chance. Don't let the opportunity slip away, because you don't know when it will come again.
Posted by: Yitz | July 31, 2008 at 10:19 AM
You don't pass up opportunities like this. Besides, nothing is free, Boston expects to get something worthwhile out of him.
Look at the BOSOX's best starting pitcher, came from Marlins for next to nothing.
Posted by: Jimbo | July 31, 2008 at 10:26 AM
You don't pass up opportunities like this. Besides, nothing is free, Boston expects to get something worthwhile out of him.
Look at the BOSOX's best starting pitcher, came from Marlins for next to nothing.
Posted by: Jimbo | July 31, 2008 at 10:26 AM
How can you say next to nothing. Boston gave up the best all around player in the league.
Posted by: Joe | July 31, 2008 at 12:50 PM
Really Joe? Who did Boston give the Marlins for acquiring Josh Beckett?? The best all round player in the league? A ROD?
Posted by: Jimbo | July 31, 2008 at 01:16 PM
I don't know why the system posted me in duplicate earlier.
I see Fins brought in Quincy Carter for a workout. That guy is a joke. Carter is lucky to make an Arena league roster. Apparently, Parcells has a comic side to himself.
Posted by: Jimbo | July 31, 2008 at 01:34 PM
KEEP HERMIDA
I dont know how to say it any more simply. He is a shame to all Mannys out there.
Keep Hermida!! I emailed the Marlins, and have posted on ESPN. Im doin my part as a fan to make sure my voice is heard. ManRam is not the answer
Posted by: manny | July 31, 2008 at 02:10 PM
Jimbo,
methinks Joe meant "best all-around player" in the NATIONAL league! hardee, har, har; the guy can't field his position and is batting under .200 with runners in scoring position. contrary to the poll in SI, chase utley over hanley ramirez now, tomorrow, and for the next five years.
Posted by: the shadow knows | July 31, 2008 at 02:14 PM
I don't know how much of a good faith effort the Marlins are putting forward. All the reports I'm hearing have the deal falling apart because the Marlins are asking too much. They supposedly keep asking for prospects and additional money from Boston as well. Take Manny and his salary, give them Hermida, Tucker and a prospect and you still came out ahead. Once again the Marlin's are messing with the fans.
Posted by: Luis | July 31, 2008 at 02:57 PM
shadow,, Hanley Ramirez? your kiddin me right? He's not even the best player on his own team. Top 50 in the league maybe. I thought Joe was insinuating someone the likes of A Rod,, not that guy. wow, talk about a homer.
Posted by: Jimbo | July 31, 2008 at 03:01 PM
It seems to me as if the Marlins got too greedy. Bottom line: it didn't happen, and I don't know how to fell about that. We'll see if it was a good move come September.
Posted by: Pat | July 31, 2008 at 05:28 PM
*feel
Posted by: Pat | July 31, 2008 at 05:33 PM
yea, the marlins "good faith" was bs. they could have gotten manny (seeing how the dodgers got him with the same trading partners) but screwed up the deal and didn't go through with it. they management shouldn't be complimented for teasing their fans when they were the ones responsible for the trade falling through.
Posted by: matt | July 31, 2008 at 05:47 PM
Thank God, the Marlins didn't get Manny. Instead they got bullpen relief help. Which certainly helps. Good move by the Marlins.
Posted by: ginrai | July 31, 2008 at 08:10 PM
I'd love to see Larry Beinfest play poker sometime...
By sticking to his guns and not getting Manny, we just got a cohesive team now with a huge chip on it's shoulder...
Posted by: Talbot | August 01, 2008 at 12:53 AM
Main Entry: co·he·sion
Pronunciation: \kō-ˈhē-zhən\
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin cohaesus, past participle of cohaerēre
Date: 1660
1: the act or state of sticking together tightly; especially : unity
Posted by: Talbot | August 01, 2008 at 12:56 AM
Sun's up ... August 1, 2008
50+ games to go...
Posted by: Talbot | August 01, 2008 at 08:09 AM
Jimbo,
are you referring to dan uggla as the best player on the marlins? i don't know if he is better than the shortstop, but neither is close to "best player in the league". have a great weekend, which includes the first of the exhibition games in the NFL. at last...
Posted by: the shadow knows | August 01, 2008 at 10:48 AM
Greg, Quincy has a nice arm and can run really fast; additionally, he has nice juke ability; he is no joke--he just needs a fair shake. It's time for the Dolphins to gird up their loins and put their heads to the grindstone because we need excellent playmakers; furthermore, and uh? did I mention he has a rifle? Parcells ain't playin' tiddlywinks, this is Miami Dolphin football. Yeah, sure, we've been a laughingstock for some years now, but I've been going around the league breaking down teams--the Dolphins have a shot for a wildcard. Tony is a bit soft, so Bill is there to tighten up the nuts and bolts. I'm optimistic. Hey Greg, can you create another one of your masterpieces with the ageless, lovely Pat Benatar? You're the tour de force of marvelous sports songs. They have catchy phrases ...
Posted by: hey there, how's your steak? | August 01, 2008 at 04:13 PM
fellers,
so now the NFL is gonna allow the defensive side to receive just as the Qb does, via earphones; today's players may be bigger, faster, stronger but they are robots who cannot think on their feet. butkis, lanier,nitscke, buoniconti,singletary getting messages from the pressbox? didn't need them. sorry, but i prefer QBs and MLBs who understand the game and don't need helpfrom the coaches once the action starts; same with those basketball coaches who are on their feet the whole game yelling instructions at their players-pathetic!!!
Posted by: the shadow knows | August 01, 2008 at 04:48 PM
the shadow.
u's funny. dick buttkiss, ha
u's funny.
Posted by: yoyo | August 01, 2008 at 05:57 PM