The Heat have fallen to 8-28, heading for Miami's worst NBA season since the expansion late '80s. I've got a column on the mess that you'd find in today's paper and online by clicking here. Three big questions are begging answers:
1. How much does Shaquille O'Neal -- all but untradeable because of his age, injuries, declining productivity and salary -- have left to give? 2. Will Dwyane Wade's worse-than-first-believed shoulder injury prevent him from consistently being the player we saw leading the 2006 title run? 3. What is Pat Riley's future as head coach given this week's hedge on continuing beyond this season?
Inviting thoughts on what has primarily caused the Heat's sharp decline and how it has weighed on your opinion of Riley as a head coach. Poll-votes and comments welcome.
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Riley should let both Wade and Shaq shut it down for rest of the season. So they can completely heal their bodies and get ready for next season by being healthy again. Since the Heat aren't going to the playoffs this year. Why risk them getting hurt? Riley should let Cook, Wright, Quinn and the young players and other players develop more with playing time. Also with the kind of season the Heat have been having they'll get a high lottery pick which will certainly help. Get some good free agents during the off season ,and the Heat will be playoff ready ,and back in the mix for next season. Go Heat!
Posted by: ginrai | January 09, 2008 at 10:25 PM
Also remember Riley is to the Heat what Shula is to the Dolphins. Riley will get it turned around next season. He has gotten the Heat back in the game many times before.
Posted by: ginrai | January 09, 2008 at 10:29 PM
1 - you forgot the most important reason for fatty's decline. expensive divorce...
2 - thank god for the unwarranted, jordanesque parade to the freethrow stripe.
3 - what goes around, comes around. he was a backstabbing worm when politicking behind an injured paul westhead's back in los angeles. he was cowardly wimp when faxing in his resignation in new york. and, he ass humped stan van gundy in miami. who is laughing now?
Posted by: dean | January 09, 2008 at 10:29 PM
i'm so envious ,and full of hatered. i'm in need of repentence. if only i ever hear the voice of reason or will i always stoop this low being a midget troll in here?
Posted by: dean | January 09, 2008 at 10:55 PM
pat riley has not been able to devise an offense in his entire career; he won in los angeles because he had the most talented players assembled ever, and in miami he won once owing to a phenomenal effort by dwyane wade. otherwise, he has coache team after team that is lucky to score 80 points per game. anybody can "coach" defense- it is basically getting in the other guy's way. to come up with an offense takes ingenuity, while riley lacks. he is by far the most overrated and overhyped coach in NBA history- look at what stan van gundy did with the same material when he took over when riley bailed on the heat!!
Posted by: the shadow knows | January 09, 2008 at 11:17 PM
shadow,
Long time no speak. Have to disagree with you somewhat with your Riley assessment: "the most overrated coach." Riley is the quintessential - right place at the right time guy. If you recall, back in 81/82 the Lakers were underperforming from a drill sergeant approach game style which Paul Westhead was mandating. The Lakers then with Magic and Norm, Jamal, Kareem were what the Suns were last year - a running, assist-off-the-point guard team. Riley freed the players to do what came naturally to them, run. You may be right about the defense, but recall that that Laker team was pretty good defensively as well. Riley is kinda like a Phil Jackson "lite." He'll take good talent up to the next level.
Thanks goes out to you and others who continue to forge ahead.
Posted by: OC Dolphin | January 10, 2008 at 02:26 AM
The cause of the Heat's decline is obvious. We traded many draft picks and most of our young players to obtain Shaq and the other pieces of the '06 title team.
Those were GOOD MOVES by Pat Riley that resulted in a Championship. However, everyone knew there'd be a price to pay for that title.
We're paying that price today. We have few good young players on the team and Shaq's huge contract has left us with no CAP space.
Thus, Riley can't go out and sign good players or make big trades to improve the team significantly.
My opinion of Pat hasn't changed because of this season. His hands are tied since we're up against the cap and have few trade chips.
Posted by: David | January 10, 2008 at 02:28 AM
David - 100% correct.
Posted by: OC Dolphin | January 10, 2008 at 02:42 AM
Cote - who is the "everyone" in your statement regarding DWades' shoulder? Not me, that's for sure. MANY people knew it was a serious injury, and when Riley forced Wade back early, I was one to stand up and say it's too soon to come back. Of course no one listened. Wade is fragile. It's a fact.
As for Shaq, dean is right. If a man's head isn't right, you can't count on him. Shaq can come back from this embarassing season, and be a 15pts - 10rebound guy again next year, but that doesn't make them a championship team.
The thing that gets me is so many people outside of Miami saw this coming, but some others like ginrai burried their head in the sand to it. It was pretty obvious this offseasn that the HEAT would stink it up this year. How come Miami fans continue to over-rate their teams? Ginrai? Can you answer without a personal attack?
Lastly, its true, Riley is reaping what he sowed. He is getting everythnig he deserves.
Posted by: Kurt | January 10, 2008 at 06:19 AM
Another Riley problem: not playing youngsters. If I was coming out of the draft I'd be telling the Heat not to bother picking me.
Posted by: Stan | January 10, 2008 at 06:27 AM
Riley should step down as president and just coach! We can not continue to go into seasons with Quinn aka "mighty mouse" as our top back up point. Our off season was a dissaster!
Posted by: Iz | January 10, 2008 at 08:53 AM
i'm not only retarded but i'm double jointed. after i get done blowing myself i hope to eat pat rileys ass. i'm a brown noser!
Posted by: ginrai | January 10, 2008 at 08:56 AM
OC Dolphin,
whether with the lakers, knicks, or heat- riley's offense was signaled by the fist in the air- get the ball into the post presence, whether it be kareem, patrick ewing, or shaq. the key to success in the nba has been having players good enough to win the ncaa championship, get to the finals (wilt and jerry west), or lead a team to the final four with no talent elsewhere (wade). the lakers had magic, worthy, kareem (5 titles between them) and even butch lee of marquette's champs. the pistons of late boast richard hamilton, and the bad boys had isaiah thomas- both NCAA champs. the spurs are an exception- did tim duncan get to the final four with wake?
Posted by: the shadow knows | January 10, 2008 at 09:16 AM
hi shadow,
early start for a "left coaster" today? i think timmy did get to the final four with wake, but i could be wrong. how about david robinson with navy? he had six chances to get there, no?
are the 2008 lakers for real?
Posted by: dean | January 10, 2008 at 09:44 AM
i have a two track dilusional mind ,and kurt agrees with me on everything. Are we really that close to each other? More closer than Burt and Ernie from Sesame Street? It makes me wonder?
Posted by: dean | January 10, 2008 at 10:25 AM
i started with smaller letters and i finished with capital letters. am i losing my mind?
Posted by: dean | January 10, 2008 at 10:30 AM
Bostonian
All kidding aside, why don't you stop this nonsense? You have ruined what used to be a good place for Miami fans to discuss sports. Is that what it means to be a Pats fan? Ruining things for other fans?
Are your issues that big that making life miserable for others creates pleasure for you? Think about how sick that is. Now I don't expect you to stop, because you've never displayed one ounce of decency, but I do hope that you reconsider what you do on this blog. Talking football is one thing, but you "have taken it to another level" that has created this poisonous environment.
Posted by: The Judge | January 10, 2008 at 10:32 AM
Dean-
Riles will be able to keep a constant grin from here on out because that 2006 title was so unexpected and so sweet.
Posted by: James | January 10, 2008 at 10:54 AM
Riley is having the same type of problem Shula had with the Dolphins. The Dolphins were most effective when the personnel and coaching duties were split between different people. When Shula was given both hats, the quality of both the coaching and personnel selection declined.
Riley should turn over the coaching reins immediately; try to impartially analyze the personnel and make corporate decisions to restore team chemistry.
Posted by: tecdad | January 10, 2008 at 12:02 PM
Shaq is done, large body all used up. He brought the one title. In his prime no one could stop him.
Wade will never be a top NBA ever again. He has had too many injuries in a short span. His NBA career will NOW be filled with surgeries, comebacks, more injuries. Sad but true.
Riley should be gone and if he isn't forced out he will leave on his own. Riley is the kind of coach who does well with very talented teams-like most decent NBA coaches. Realistically he is probably one of the top 12 coaches. But...building a young team over a period of 4 yrs, really teaching, patient for the results is not Riley.
Posted by: Jimbo | January 10, 2008 at 12:08 PM
Pat Riley is one of the best coaches ever. He isn't overrated. He has five championship rings as a head coach. Guided all his teams to the playoffs and finals. Where ever he went.
I hope he doesn't resign. He had to deal with injuries. J Williams and R Davis contracts are up soon ,and he doesn't have to deal with Antoine Walker's contact anymore either. He can get some really good free agents in the off season. Plus he'll have a high lottery draft pick. Riley can rebuild teams into good ones. Look at the Heat and the other team he was before with. He made them into playoff contenders immediately.
Posted by: ginrai | January 10, 2008 at 12:43 PM
Don't worry Belicheat and former cheapskate marlin owner John Henry for dissing the marlins will get theirs too with their current bozoton teams. What goes around comes around skurt! You should of thought twice for trolling here spewing bad things to our teams ,and other websites you troll on. Bozoton big deal! Flipper you got your wish. The patty cakes are facing Jacksonville first. Either Jacksonville or the Colts might certainly beat those NewlyEarned Patso clowns like you have said.
Posted by: ginrai | January 10, 2008 at 12:55 PM
The Heat's problem is they have no shooters, plain and simple. Jeff Van Gundy said it best during one of the Heat's broadcast recently, the NBA is a make or miss league. If you can't make a jump shot on a consistent basis your team is not going to win. The Heat have far to many empty trips either by missing a shot and not getting the rebound or a T.O.
It's frustrating to watch every team we play have guys who can SHOOT the ball. Most of the time guys you have never heard of.
The Heat just need to play hard and finish out the season. Making the playoffs this year would have been a disaster anyway do to the fact the pick would have gone to the T-Wolves, so I think Riley is more than happy to get another lottery pick. Cook seems to be a keeper, if we can pick up 2 solid players (lottery and high 2nd rd pick) from this years draft, the Heat should be back in business.
On another note I really think the Heat should keep Luke Jackson even though he hasn't performed much. The fact is he was a top 10 pick in '04 so there must be some talent there. I say let him play and get some confidence it may pay dividends down the road.
Posted by: DROC | January 10, 2008 at 01:10 PM
I miss the Bostonian.
Posted by: Mr. Woodcock | January 10, 2008 at 02:14 PM
It's funny how fickle Heat fan's are. One bad off-season and Pat should get fired.
We should have fired him when is Got Shaq, or Drafted Wade, Or Drafted C-Butler, or Traded for Zo and Hardaway.
I know pat is a very calculating person. Look at the Heat, Outside of Shaq, Wade, Haslem and Blount, every other contract can get dumped. Williams, Davis, Smush, Quinn, Barron etc.
You can build a team cheap, look at the lakers, Kobe's getting gobs of money, but most of the role players and even Bynum they have cheap.
Come on Pat, swoop in and steal A.I.
Posted by: Big-Kev | January 10, 2008 at 02:48 PM
i'm the bostonian custodian trash picker. do you really miss me pencil pusher?
Posted by: dean | January 10, 2008 at 02:51 PM
Ginrai, we all know Flipper72, is already working on his excuses for sat. night. You know, the same rant, league wants Pats in the SB. Willtell the officials, throw the flags against the Jacksonville Jailbirds. The CIA is with the Pats. Looks like good weather, so there should be no interference with the Pats sattelite spy dish. If you check the stat sheet after the game, come monday morning, the only stat the Jailbirds will lead in is arrest over the weekend.
Posted by: naples jack,patsfan | January 10, 2008 at 04:08 PM
Ginrai, you are a difficult person to reason with. No sense in trying to have a reasonable back and forth discussion with you as long as I am called skirt and trolly and your usual crap. Let me take this opportunity to wish you a fond farewell. I will spend my time attempting to communicate with others.
Posted by: Kurt | January 10, 2008 at 06:00 PM
It comes down to this the Dolfans are desperate. They are running out of teams and games. Soon the Patriots will have accomplished what no other team has done before ... a 19-0 season. Flipper72 is desperate as are the other Dolfans. Soon.
Posted by: The Bostonian | January 10, 2008 at 08:26 PM
Why do we have so many stinking New Yorkers in Miami. Not only do your teams in New York suck but you re-threads down here in miami also suck...Long Live the King Pat Riley.
Posted by: FRANCO | January 10, 2008 at 08:28 PM
It comes down to this ... the Dolfans are desperate. They are running out of teams and games. Soon the Patriots will have accomplished what no other team has done before ... a 19-0 season. Flipper72 is desperate as are the other Dolfans. Soon.
Posted by: The Bostonian | January 10, 2008 at 08:28 PM
naples jack,
my brother in arm ... NO, I will not back off! Flipper72 will NOT drive me away from this blog! He is a loser! I will stay! If the Pats lose, I'll go ... fine. If not, I will kick it up a notch!
Posted by: The Bostonian | January 10, 2008 at 08:30 PM
Posted by: The Bostonian | January 10, 2008 at 08:31 PM
Jimbo,
It is your own "Flipper72" that has posted most of the things that YOU PEOPLE think I'm posting. His mission has been to discredit me! I have NOT posted one insult.
Notice how conveniently all "my" posts are followed by his or by some idiotic post by "The Bostonian" or some other insultive name! How can you people not see what he is doing? Why is it OK?
Posted by: The Bostonian | January 10, 2008 at 08:43 PM
Also, "ginrai" and "Flipper72" have always been the same person!
Posted by: The Bostonian | January 10, 2008 at 08:44 PM
dean,
i remember navy making it to a regional final only to have duke waiting for them with signs calling the midshipmen "pond scum"; "the admiral" was a fantastic player and a great human being- with any help whatsoever he might have gotten to the final four.
Posted by: the shadow knows | January 10, 2008 at 09:23 PM
Flipper and me the same person? Haha! You are a bad liar and nuisance lower case dean "the bozotonian wannabe". Trolls are bad as pests yet they dare to correct others without seeing their own big flaws first.
Yeah I get it scottish skurt spewing your own bozoton supremacy nonesense to someone else here. No one will take you lightly in here. Maybe the other bozotons in your fellow sports site might listen to it since they are bozo within the bloodlines like yourself.
Posted by: ginrai | January 10, 2008 at 11:01 PM
POSITIVES?
DAVIS/BLOUNT BETTER THAN WALKER/DOLEAC
QUINN, WRIGHT IMPROVED. COOK HAS UPSIDE.
THAT'S ALL FOLKS.
ZO IS DONE
SHAQ IS DONE
POSEY ,KAPONO, EDDIE GONE
WADE WILL ALWAYS BE INCONSISTENT AND HURT
RILEY CANT BENCH COACH ANY MORE
FACE IT
Posted by: dribbler | January 11, 2008 at 12:42 AM
Flip/ dribbler,
here's a tip ... that post about Zoe ... no one cares. You see, Flip, you have no credibility. It's over! Whatever you post is either: 1.) not read 2.) identity in doubt or 3.) irrelevent
As I mentioned before, this forum has been taken from you.
Also,
you're running out of teams/games!
19-0!
Posted by: The Bostonian | January 11, 2008 at 08:37 AM
Make that 16-1. The Jaguars are going to win against my laughable circus team. Remember Flip said it.
Posted by: The Bostonian | January 11, 2008 at 10:27 AM
Whoever thinks that Riley has been a bad coach, or even an average coach, is either thirteen years old, an idiot or a grumpy, jealous Knicks fan.
To the geniuses that think Riley can only win with great players, I can't think of any coach that has won an NBA title without having great players. Does that mean that there are NO great coaches?
To the Nimrods that think Riley inherited great players, here's what Riley inherited in Miami: Kevin Willis, Billy Owens, Glen Rice, Harold Minor and Bimbo Coles!!! I love Glen Rice, but get some perspective guys!!! He then turned that joke team into a Title contender in, oh, six months, and kept them there for the greater part of 12 years.
I don't care if Riley has lost his touch. I don't care if he makes ten conscutive bad trades. I don't care if he fails to make the playoffs ever again, or if he throws six more people under the bus. The fact is this: if you're a Heat fan you should have a Pat Riley action figure, poster and shrine in your closet, b/c this team will NEVER, EVER have a better coach than him.
I stunned as to how many people just can't get how incredibly difficult it is to do THIS:
COACHING RECORD
LAL 1981-82 1st in Pacific Won NBA Championship
LAL 1982-83 1st in Pacific Lost in NBA Finals
LAL 1983-84 1st in Pacific Lost in NBA Finals
LAL 1984-85 1st in Pacific Won NBA Championship
LAL 1985-86 1st in Pacific Lost Conf. Finals
LAL 1986-87 1st in Pacific Won NBA Championship
LAL 1987-88 1st in Pacific Won NBA Championship
LAL 1988-89 1st in Pacific Lost in NBA Finals
LAL 1989-90 1st in Pacific Lost in Second Round
NY 1991-92 1st in Atlantic Lost in Second Round
NY 1992-93 1st in Atlantic Lost in Conf. Finals
NY 1993-94 1st in Atlantic Lost in NBA Finals
NY 1994-95 2nd in Atlantic Lost in Second Round
MIA 1995-96 3rd in Atlantic Lost in First Round
MIA 1996-97 1st in Atlantic Lost in Conf. Finals
MIA 1997-98 1st in Atlantic Lost in First Round
MIA 1998-99 1st in Atlantic Lost in First Round
MIA 1999-00 1st in Atlantic Lost in Second Round
MIA 2000-01 2nd in Atlantic Lost in First Round
MIA 2001-02 6th in Atlantic Missed Playoffs
MIA 2002-03 7th in Atlantic Missed Playoffs
MIA 2005-06 1st in Southeast Won NBA Championship
MIA 2006-07 1st in Southeast Lost in First Round
Posted by: Los Dullfins | January 11, 2008 at 02:51 PM
Who ever it is that is using others names and posting insulting crap...knock it off already.
It's not like you will ever actually be around any of us and get your head kicked in. So why are you scared of using your own name or worse yet using other peoples nicknames??
Bostonian, if it were an imposter using your name, then that imposter owes you and some of us an oppology. Or better fitting, just cease the BS and it's all good.
Posted by: Jimbo | January 11, 2008 at 06:32 PM
Jimbo,
The previous posts were not by me, "The Bostonian." Yes, I am a Patriots fan. No, I am not the type of person that would make that type of post. That is Flipper72 using my name and/or names to imply it is me. He is a truly filthy and hateful individual. Again, I did NOT post the previous messages about you. The only posts I have ever made are about the Pats ... I have NEVER made an insultive comment about any individual in this forum.
Posted by: The Bostonian | January 11, 2008 at 08:34 PM
URGENT APPEAL TO ALL DOLPHIN FANS
Please email (regular snail mail is even better) Greg Cote your specific complaints regarding offensive posts of The Bostonian. His email address is
gcote@herald.com
The Bostonian will no doubt email several posts to Greg. But if we overwhelm Greg with our complaints about this disgusting individual, we should prevail. If not, then this blog is not worth the time or effort. Here is the message I sent Greg earlier today:
Dear Greg
A cancer in infecting your blogs. What once was a pleasant, though at times contentious, place to discuss Miami sports has now been ruined by one individual Pats fan who has brought his disgusting brand of fandom to the blog. He seems to derive some
sadistic pleasure from causing chaos on the blog. He has stolen the identities of every regular blogger on the site and posted disgusting entries using their names.
Below is a cut and paste sample of one of his posts:
Flipper,
You can call yourself Beelzebub for all I care ... I know when it's you. I can
sense you like the stench of death I had earlier today. Yea, sweetheart ... the
dead! Baby!
You're running OUT OF TEAMS! You're RUNNING OUT OF GAMES!!!
19-0!!! It's coming straight up your ass ... gotta get back to mom and the worms!!!
heh, heh
Posted by: The Alias (The Bostonian) | January 11, 2008 at 05:49 PM
We have repeatedly asked him to stop with his vulgarities, to no avail. His response has been he does not care about anyone and will continue to do whatever he wants. Several regular bloggers have already abandoned the blog because of this individual. This individual has stolen the identities of almost every regular blogger and created havoc on the blog. As might be expected, the regular bloggers have fought back and it has gotten very ugly. But let there be no doubt, it is the one individual who submitted the above post at 5:49pm Jan 11, 2008 on the NFL Round 2 Playoff Picks blog that is the root cause of all the problems on the blog. In the above post when the individual writes "I can sense you like the stench of death I had earlier today. Yea, sweetheart ... the dead! Baby!" he is referring to having sex with the dead
mother of another blogger. My God, this has to stop Greg. Please help.
I do hope that you will block this individual’s access to the blog and remove the cancer.
This will not work unless Greg is overwhelmed. Just to make sure that he gets the message (he may not read all of his email), I am sending Greg a letter by regular snail mail. The letter is going out this morning. I suggest each of you do the same. This has to be a concerted effort to create a tidal wave against The Bostonian and his filth.
If we want our blog back, we have to do something now. PLEASE HELP STOP THE BOSTONIAN NOW!!!!
Posted by: This Has To Stop NOW | January 12, 2008 at 11:20 AM
Well, I'll say this much ... I'm honored by so much attention. However, you are quite misguided. Although, there have been many posts with my name attached to it stating vulgarities and inflamatory words ... they are not by me. What I have done is post 19-0 and that Brady is the best, the Dolphins will lose their claim to being undefeated, etc.
However, I have not posted vulgarities. Some one in the OB blog area mentioned what I think is the truth. Which I believe is this:
Flipper72 and I, The Bostonian, have gotten into a heated debate over the Pats and Fins.
Someone else, a third party, or perhaps a fourth and fifth party, have joined in ... those individuals have used my name ... perhaps his and have kicked things up a notch, so to speak. Regardless of what some of you may wish to think I have NOT posted what some of you think I have posted.
In fact, I would say that 60 to 70% of what you see as The Bostonian ... is NOT by me, the original Bostonian.
But, whatever ... I can't prove that any more than any of you can prove otherwise.
Yes, this is quite unfortuante and ridiculous.
Posted by: The Bostonian | January 12, 2008 at 01:28 PM
One way to put an end to this is by requiring each user to register. Once a name is registered another individual will not be able to use that name as their own.
Of course, an individual could register under multiple names, but that would be time consuming and it still will not enable them to "steal" a name.
The ironic thing here is this ... no one has had their name used more than I have. No one's name has been dragged as much as mine.
Posted by: The Bostonian | January 12, 2008 at 01:39 PM
The Bostonian make sure to watch the game at 8 o'clock tonight. The Jaguars are going to defeat your Patriots big time! Remember this 16-1!
Posted by: the vigilante | January 12, 2008 at 03:33 PM
This will not work unless Greg is overwhelmed. Just to make sure that he gets the message (he may not read all of his email), I am sending Greg a letter by regular snail mail. The letter is going out this morning. I suggest each of you do the same. This has to be a concerted effort to create a tidal wave against The Bostonian and his filth.
If we want our blog back, we have to do something now. PLEASE HELP STOP THE BOSTONIAN NOW!!!!
Posted by: This Has To Stop NOW | January 12, 2008 at 05:37 PM
WELL BEING A HUGE MIAMI FAN OF THE TEAM WIN OR LOOSE I HAVE TO SAY THAT SITTING IN EAST TENNESSEE WHEN YOU WATCH YOUR TEENAGE SON WITH AUTISM WHO IS TALL AND CAN PLAY CENTER IF IT WASNT FOR ALL THE SCHOOLS RULES TO SEE THE GAME IN HIS EYES IS LIFE CHANGING , SHAQ AND ZO ARE HIS FAVS WHEN ZO WENT DOWN IN THAT GAME I KNEW IT WAS BAD AND MY SON SAID MOM HE WILL WALK OFF COURT I SAID NO ITS BAD , ANDY SAID HES THE HEART OF A CHAMPION AND BOUT THAT TIME TEAMMATES AND ZO WENT WALKING OFF THE COURT MY SON PRAYS FOR HIM TWICE A DAY AND FOLKS IF THERE IS ONE EXAMPLE OF WHY TO NOT COUNT OUT THE HEAT THE DRIVE TO WALK ON HIS OWN POWER AND TO DO SO AFTER COMING BACK FROM THE KIDNEY ISSUES AND GET TO BE ON THE CHAMPIONSHIP TEAM ...SOMETIMES LOOK WITH THE EYES AND FAITH OF A CHILD GOOD TIMES AND BAD THEY CAN SURVIVE AND REGROUP LIKE MY SON DOES AT HIS SCHOOL IN HARRIMAN TN HE ISNT DEFEATED BY AUTISM IT DRIVES HIM TO SUCCEED .
Posted by: lisa googe | January 12, 2008 at 10:45 PM
throw a life ring overboard- pat riley about to jump ship! AGAIN! WITH NO STAN VAN GUNDY TO CAPTAIN THE BOAT!!!
Posted by: the shadow knows | January 13, 2008 at 11:01 AM