FOR THIS, WE ARE TRULY THANKFUL
Or at least, we were last night.
(Thanks to Punky B. for the assistance)
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Or at least, we were last night.
(Thanks to Punky B. for the assistance)
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Di, you said, "Normal is relative." Obviously, you haven't met my relatives.
Posted by: neophyte | March 02, 2005 at 09:59 AM
abnormal boyfriends are much more fun...
Posted by: Mad "about Weasel" Scientist | March 02, 2005 at 10:05 AM
From the Did You Know> files:
Did You Know that what we today call a goatee is actually called a Van Dyke or a Circle Beard?
A goatee is limited to chin whiskers, typically trimmed to look like the beard of a goat.
A Van Dyke is a goatee plus a moustache.
A circle beard is when the goatee and moustache connect. (See the picture of me on the Y! I've since shaved it into a van dyke, though)
A soul patch is also sometimes called a "gunslinger goatee." See Val Kilmer as Doc Holiday in Tombstone.
Although purists and precisionist pedants will argue that you are using the "wrong" word when you call a beard / moustache combination a goatee, I remind you (and them) that english is a language that is constantly changing. So, if everyone calls it a goatee, then it *must* be a goatee.
Posted by: «LabSpecimen» | March 02, 2005 at 10:05 AM
i can't see a soul patch.. and I can't see it working for him either.
Posted by: Kafaleni | March 02, 2005 at 10:05 AM
Neo, where exactly is it that you live??
*takes out notebook with Places Not to Visit list*
Posted by: Di | March 02, 2005 at 10:08 AM
Rita: You're welcome :) You sweetheart, you!
Posted by: MOAT | March 02, 2005 at 10:12 AM
(For the record, my relatives really are very nice, normal, respectable people; I'm the only oddball in the family. But Di's set up was just too good to pass up.)
Di, come and visit; just don't schedule a doctor's appointment while you're here. :)
Posted by: neophyte | March 02, 2005 at 10:13 AM
Lab.... Tom Waits? He would be who?
*swoons*
WHAM!!
*picks him self up from the floor*
*groggily*
TW has had... at various times... a clean shaven face, goatee (proper), and soul patch. Even when he is clean shaven, he doesn't look clean shaven, though.
If you decide to explore his music, DO NOT listen to Closing Time, his first album, or Real Gone, his latest album. Your best bets are, in this order, Rain Dogs, Swordfishtrombones, Bone Machine, Mule Variations, and One From the Heart. Oh yeah, Small Change.
For those of you who know TW's music and wonder why I recommended staying away from Closing Time: it doesn't properly reflect his style. He was still just a kid then. Yes, it's a good album. No, it's not typical Tom Waits.
I personally LOVE Real Gone, but not everyone does. It is a hard listen. But I like percussion, and when someone can use voice like a percussion instrument? Well, that's just... gone. Real gone!
Posted by: «LabSpecimen» | March 02, 2005 at 10:16 AM
NASA...Enjoy is not the word most New Yorkers use. Although they do use corpuscle, nonagenarian, and festooned.
Posted by: Joshkr being helpful | March 02, 2005 at 10:40 AM
"Good morning everyone from so.so.ca. - storm that was expected for today has decided to go to Seattle instead - hooray!"
Eleanor...We'll have our revenge! *goes to prepare detailed PowerPoint presentation on what is wrong with our relationship with so.so.ca.*
Brat!!! Good to see you! Hey, where'd you go?
Wurm...I hope the family junk is nearing an end, I hate it when an illness turns into a family political event. But on a brighter note, I'm glad things are going so well with Alicia! When are you bringing her over to the MOAT for dinner?
Posted by: Joshkr | March 02, 2005 at 10:46 AM
Neo...Freaky story! Did the doc ever say "it rubs the lotion on its skin"?
Posted by: Joshkr | March 02, 2005 at 11:10 AM
Pssst, Marvin broke the MOAT ketchup! And Joshkr's corpuscles are festooned! Pass it on!
What? We're not playing that game anymore?
Oh.
*leaves, dejected*
Posted by: rumor mill | March 02, 2005 at 11:14 AM
What happened to neo?
I scrolled back up and did NOT find an explanation -
I must know now!
*tapping fingers and waiting, waiting, waiting....*
*realizes she must post first*
Posted by: Eleanor | March 02, 2005 at 11:15 AM
Wait! Rumor mill!!! Tell me more about Joshkrs festooned corpuscles!!!!
*sitting down w/ fresh popcorn*
Posted by: Just | March 02, 2005 at 11:19 AM
El :
Sly, Brat's "soft skin" comment was him teasing me about a post I submitted to his site.
Posted by: neophyte on March 2, 2005 02:17 PM
If you scroll up to that post... theres a link that will take you to "The Story".
Words won't do it justice... just go read. :)
Posted by: Just | March 02, 2005 at 11:26 AM
Trying to catch up...
Sandy, love the MOAT opera digest. Glad to see I saved Alex D. Knew the CPR would come in handy!
Kaf, I completly forgot the Arabic for air. That does give a different meaning to my statement. Not what I meant at all...;) And you said something gave you the skeevies...a few years ago I was at my sisters' house for breakfast with some friends of hers. Something was mentioned that was kind of skeevy, and someone said that yes, it gave him the skivvies. We couldn't figure out why it gave him underwear...
neo, your doctor kind of scares me. However I was laughing, from about "a full moon rising" on. Cringing as well, but laughing too.
MrFishair, I shall try to email again. It shows that I responded, but I don't know what happened.
Posted by: Susan | March 02, 2005 at 11:26 AM
*realizes she must post first*
Posted by: Eleanor on March 2, 2005 04:15 PM
*snork* But it would be funnier if I hadn't actually done it before.
Posted by: neophyte | March 02, 2005 at 11:34 AM
Eleanor, you've got mail.
Posted by: neophyte | March 02, 2005 at 11:43 AM
This may be something that was mentioned elsewhere and I just haven't come across it yet, but what does WBYSIYTTM stand for? Just wondering...
Posted by: Susan | March 02, 2005 at 11:44 AM
...and on the radio...
Turn around... bright eyes....
Posted by: Just | March 02, 2005 at 11:45 AM
every now and then I fall apart...
Posted by: Susan | March 02, 2005 at 11:48 AM
and I need you now-ow to-night!
and I need you mo-ore than e-vah!
Posted by: Tamara | March 02, 2005 at 11:50 AM
Susan - Would Beat You Sensless If You Tried To Make (Him bare down there)
In other news... when was Lennon killed????
Posted by: Just | March 02, 2005 at 11:51 AM
Just, that makes perfect sense.
Posted by: Susan | March 02, 2005 at 11:52 AM
It would seem my brain is just not functioning well today. It was even spelled out for me and I couldn't get it. I think I need more caffeine.
Posted by: Susan | March 02, 2005 at 11:54 AM
John Lennon was killed on December 8, 1980, but I'd hardly call that news. *grin*
I remember where I was and what I was doing when I heard it on the radio.
Posted by: «LabSpecimen» | March 02, 2005 at 11:58 AM
Vladimir Iliach Lenin died of a cerebral hemorrhage in 1924.
Posted by: «LabSpecimen» | March 02, 2005 at 12:01 PM
Just - Lennon was killed in 1980.
Imagine all the people
living in a world
Posted by: Eleanor | March 02, 2005 at 12:02 PM
*reading the dining hall menu*
Hmmmm...Oh! Saturday for dinner, there is (you guessed it) hot turkey sandwiches! Man alive, I love college...
Posted by: Marvin | Paranoid Android | March 02, 2005 at 12:04 PM
Apropos of nothing... I was just looking for something to link to for Neo on another thread and came across this .
I have no clue what its FOR, but I think we need to think of some MOAT award that would work....
I'm sure ya'll ladies here can be of service w/o me getting out the Empress hat ;)
Posted by: Just | March 02, 2005 at 12:04 PM
Gosh, Lab, do you remember where you were when you heard about Lenin's death on the radio, too? (Not that his death was on the radio, just... oh never mind.)
And if so, you really need to be on that geezer bus.
Posted by: neophyte | March 02, 2005 at 12:04 PM
Just, he died right after he was killed.
*thinks he's got the order right*
Posted by: kibby F5™ | March 02, 2005 at 12:05 PM
And Howard Cosell (RIP) announced it in the middle of a Monday Night football game.....
Posted by: Eleanor | March 02, 2005 at 12:05 PM
heh heh heh, a fitting simulpost with Just (and neo of course (see, you're not invisible), but Just's was more relevant (and a good link, too))
Posted by: Marvin | Paranoid Android | March 02, 2005 at 12:07 PM
Jack Lemmon died as a result of cancer, in 2001.
Posted by: «LabSpecimen» | March 02, 2005 at 12:07 PM
JUST! THAT was impressive. Speaking of Accessing the Ding Dong, or was it Ding Ding.
Oh, doorbell, I'll get it....
Posted by: kibby F5™ | March 02, 2005 at 12:08 PM
Marvin and Just, did you set up that silmulpost on purpose? That was too perfect to be accidental!
Posted by: neophyte | March 02, 2005 at 12:10 PM
Lab - I wasn't saying it was news per se... just saying that Imagine was on the radio when I typed that... and DH and I were trying to think of when it was he was killed, cuz the station I listen to has been playing the heck outta that song recently... we .. well.. I was wondering if it was the anniversery of his death or something. Seeing as he died when I was still barely a speck in my mama's stomach, I did not know the exact date, and its been bugging me...
Kinda like the song in question. Imagine has a great message and all, but after hearing it AT LEAST 5 times a day EVERY day, it gets ... oh, shall I say... old?!?!?!?
Posted by: Just | March 02, 2005 at 12:12 PM
Just...You don't know what that's for, huh?
I'd suggest it as the "men suck" award, to be passed around by the blogette that had the latest bad experience with some dude.
But I'm weird like that.
Posted by: Joshkr | March 02, 2005 at 12:14 PM
I'm not dead yet!
Oops, wrong MOAT.
Posted by: Lenin F5™ | March 02, 2005 at 12:15 PM
Oh my... if I still smoked that would definitely be cause...
And Marvin... umm... don't take this the wrong way, but I'm SOOOOO craving a Turkey Sandwhich right now!!! You wanna go to the future, get me one, then FedEx it to me?????
*trying not to drool over 2nd mention of Turkey Sandwiches in 10 minutes*
*failing*
*dreaming of Subway on the way home*
Posted by: Just | March 02, 2005 at 12:16 PM
Sigh. I'm craving a turkey sandwich too.
Posted by: neophyte | March 02, 2005 at 12:18 PM
*kibby takes 2 more NyQuill®, couple shots of tequilla and two bowls of chicken soup*
Sould sleep well tonight!
Posted by: kibby F5™ | March 02, 2005 at 12:21 PM
*kibby takes 2 more NyQuill®, couple shots of tequilla and two bowls of chicken soup*
SHould sleep well tonight!
Posted by: kibby F5™ | March 02, 2005 at 12:22 PM
And Joshkr, I'd suggest the award should go to the blogette that had the latest really good experience with some dude.
Posted by: neophyte | March 02, 2005 at 12:23 PM
I'm craving a sandwich too.
Oh, you meant food.
Kibby...Ding Ding. Oh, doorbell, I'll get it.... *snork!*
Posted by: Joshkr | March 02, 2005 at 12:23 PM
Just -
I think we should definitely get a trophy like that for the MOAT. But instead of glass, can we get one made of, oh, I dunno - maybe latex? Just to keep costs down, ya know?
Posted by: Debbie | March 02, 2005 at 12:23 PM
And Joshkr, no, I didn't.
Posted by: neophyte | March 02, 2005 at 12:24 PM
Neo...much better idea...call it the "Turkey Sandwich" award? ;)
Posted by: Joshkr | March 02, 2005 at 12:24 PM
Josh .. well.. I know what my mind immediately said it was for... but umm... I'm pregnant. I'm not responsible for the things my hormones say!!!!
*snork* I like the idea of the "Men Suck" award...
Posted by: Just | March 02, 2005 at 12:25 PM
But Just, statistically, that is NOT what most men want to suck. Just sayin'.
Posted by: neophyte | March 02, 2005 at 12:26 PM
I wouldn't have thought that Cheerios would sponsor the kind of event that would award trophies like that...
Posted by: rhealist | March 02, 2005 at 12:27 PM
*flying high on an overdose of Tylenol Allergy Sinus*
*nose is still stuffy and runny*
*wonders if Kibby will share some of his meds with her*
Posted by: Di | March 02, 2005 at 12:28 PM
Dear Mr. and Ms. Language Persons:
What is the male version of a 'prima donna'? 'Cause I'm up to my ass in them!
I'm on a hiring committee and just overheard two colleagues complaining about a guy's transcripts ,that they weren't in English or something. Should I a) just ignore them and silently vow to never do it again or b) Crank up the 'Numa numa iei' song until their ears bleed?
Posted by: insomniac | March 02, 2005 at 12:29 PM
LAB?! YOU GOT SOM'TIN AGAINST TURKEYS? SOME OF MY ONLY FRIENDS ARE TURKIES!
Posted by: kibby F5™ | March 02, 2005 at 12:31 PM
Lab - I don't get the correlation b'tween Making a Turkey Sandwich and Playing a Ukulele as per your link, but *shrug* whatever floats yer boat!!
Debbie - *snork* Umm.. if we make it outa LATEX it will most likely disappear. Keeping it made outta Crystal protects it a little better...
Neo & Josh - upon second thought, the award as shown IS best for the Turkey Sandwich Award ... so for the Men Suck award I dunno... maybe a Crystal Tongue ???? I know if I were incredibly pissed that would make ME happy.... or We could use Debbies idea of the Latex award.... but then theres STILL the chance that it would "Disappear" ...
Just some ideas....
Posted by: Just | March 02, 2005 at 12:32 PM
...cept those in here of course...
Posted by: kibby F5™ | March 02, 2005 at 12:32 PM
Neo -- After reading that story, I was thinking "sexual harassment," not "eccentric." But I guess it's good that you can deal with it without severe trauma. Maybe it would stop if the "doctor" got hooked up with the mooning teacher.
Just -- What do I think it's for? You don't want to know.
Sorry, I was half-sperm and half-egg, split between my future mother and father, when Lennon died, so there's no telling exactly where I was at that moment.
Posted by: Alex D. | March 02, 2005 at 12:34 PM
Di, sure! The tequilla? Or NyQuill(rm-thingie®)
Posted by: kibby F5™ | March 02, 2005 at 12:35 PM
UGH... um... *hiding Bold HTML Badge* I didn't mean to do that!!! PROMISE!!! Please don't paddle me...
wait.. umm... what was I saying again?!?!?!?
*inncoent look*
Posted by: Just | March 02, 2005 at 12:38 PM
Primo don. Hmmm, that can't be right.
Posted by: neophyte | March 02, 2005 at 12:41 PM
Primo don. Hmmm, that can't be right. coming from a neophyte?
Now isn't that a slap on the knee?
...or maybe not.
Posted by: kibby F5™ | March 02, 2005 at 12:45 PM
*tries blowing her nose*
*the sound of a mini fog horn fills the Moat*
Kibby, maybe a lot of both?
Posted by: Di | March 02, 2005 at 12:50 PM
A slap on the knee is better than a slap in the face, I always say.
Ok, well, I've never actually said it, but still.
Posted by: neophyte | March 02, 2005 at 12:51 PM
HOLLY CRAP! What was that!?
*falls out of bunk, hits head on bulkwork*
One would think I'm moured in a shipping lane.
Sure, Di! Take them all!
Posted by: kibby F5™ | March 02, 2005 at 12:54 PM
The sound of a Foghorn?
Posted by: neophyte | March 02, 2005 at 12:55 PM
*wonders where LATEX award would "disappear to"*
Posted by: Marvin | Paranoid Android | March 02, 2005 at 01:01 PM
Foghorn
Posted by: Just | March 02, 2005 at 01:01 PM
*humiliated and blushing*
*accepts Kibby's offer*
Neo, it was a mini fog horn... sheesh, I am lady like, ya know...
Posted by: Di | March 02, 2005 at 01:01 PM
*looks around for the ship*
Whoa. What was that?
*avoids bringing up how he's slowly getting better*
Posted by: Alex D. | March 02, 2005 at 01:02 PM
*snork*
Posted by: Just | March 02, 2005 at 01:08 PM
Things guys do in the Seattle area.
(When they're not in the kitchen making soup for Di)
(oh and a fast connection is recommended)
Posted by: Joshkr | March 02, 2005 at 01:08 PM
*wants to hug Josh for being so sweet*
*stops short, remembering he's a guy from Seattle*
*goes back to feeling miserable and working*
Posted by: Di | March 02, 2005 at 01:12 PM
Hey Joshkr, Tina left a message on the Y and needs help in aquiring a lap top so she can return to the moat.
Posted by: BigD® | March 02, 2005 at 01:12 PM
I am pretty sure Madame Punky Brewester has some of those awards in her toy box...
Posted by: Mad "about Weasel" Scientist | March 02, 2005 at 01:14 PM
Thanks, BigD!
Posted by: Joshkr | March 02, 2005 at 01:21 PM
RL Work Story..
My firm brings in several interns to help during the various busy seasons we have. Right now, I feel like I am stuck in Sorority and Fraternity Hell.
So as I am walking by a station of intern cubes, I over hear the following conversation, where one girl is trying to figure out who a "hot associate" is who is in our office today, but usually is in Chicago. This is what I heard:
Bimbette 1: "So like we can call the receptionist, and have a few people paged.. and when he answers the page, then we'll know what his name is.."
Bimbette 2: "Thats such a smart idea!"
Bimbette 3: "I'll print an updated phone list.."
At this point, I turned the corner to see if I could figure out who this "hot associate" was the girls were discussing. When I saw who it was, I had to haul my runny nose arse back to my office and slam the door.
The dude these chicks are drooling over? He's as GAY as George Michael. I met his boyfriend and the holiday party and he commented on my Prada purse and shoes...
Ahh, to be young and in-experienced again... NOT.
*thanks the Gods for her new and improved Gaydar*
The end
Posted by: Di | March 02, 2005 at 01:24 PM
My turn to weigh in on the Neo story.
But I'm speechless.
Doctors get away with that sh!t because they are an elite class. He deserves a big fat lawsuit or at the very least, some training in sexual harassment issues. Sick sick sick!!!
*realizes she wasn't so speechless after all*
Posted by: sandy beach | March 02, 2005 at 01:26 PM
Neo - we make a good team. You drop a hilarious story somewhere, I'll pick it up and make an oblique reference to it.....PRESTO....MOAT fodder.
Hi Joshkr, and sly and, and, and....and no this is not an awards speech, just me with a fading memory.
Now what were we talking about.....Brat wanders off to see if he find the BratMobile....Here Jetta, Jetta, Jetta.......ahhhhhh
Posted by: Brat | March 02, 2005 at 01:30 PM
Di has a Prada purse and shoes? Wow...
*is grateful for Sex & the City so she knows what this stuff is*
All right, 'fess up blogettes. How many of you have had a crush on a gay guy?
*puts her own hand up*
Gimme a break, it was about 20 years ago!
Posted by: sandy beach | March 02, 2005 at 01:31 PM
*raises her hand for Sandy's poll*
*puts her hand back down*
Sandy, does it count if we were engaged before he realized or admitted he was gay?
Posted by: Di | March 02, 2005 at 01:34 PM
*slightly raising hand*
Umm.. do I get bonus points if I dated a gay guy???? He WAS a terrific kisser....
And Key Quote From The Above Article:
"He's a great singer, but he doesn't like it when people slag him off," he said.
That is all.
Posted by: Just | March 02, 2005 at 01:36 PM
Many years ago, there was a guy I had a major crush on and was so disappointed to be told by several other people that he was gay. The most vocal of these was a really attractive girl who had made a move on him and had been rebuffed. I was shocked because he didn't have the usual outward signs. I backed off, but later found out that "they" were wrong. He was absolutely straight, just very very shy around women.
We've been married for 10 years. He is totally not gay.
Posted by: Debbie | March 02, 2005 at 01:38 PM
Ok... Di's Engagement totally trumps my HS romance. *sigh*
Oh well... time to go play in traffic!!!!
See ya'll kiddoes later! ;)
CAR!!
Posted by: Just | March 02, 2005 at 01:39 PM
Just, does it make you feel any better knowing that my gay ex's name is the same as the guy I went out with last night and because of that I am having serious issues calling this man by his name, instead I've taken to calling him by a nickname or not referring to his name at all..?
Posted by: Di | March 02, 2005 at 01:47 PM
Debbie, those shy guys are the best, IMO.
Di, no wonder you're happy you got that gaydar tuned up. Bummer!
In my case, it was a really good-looking smart guy I worked with. I never told anyone I had a crush on him so nobody clued me in although everyone else knew he was gay. I finally figured it out at the Christmas party. He was pretty drunk and dancing with this woman--they were both really good dancers and doing all kinds of crazy moves. (I have never been a good dancer so it was good it was her and not me.)
After one of their "shows" he said to her (audibly to everyone), "I am so gay, but if I weren't, I'd jump your bones." Or words to that effect.
I got it after that.
That was the best office Xmas party I ever attended, though.
Posted by: sandy beach | March 02, 2005 at 01:48 PM
Di - No. :) But if it'll make YOU feel better we have an award for you up there *pointing up*
heh...
Really leaving this time!!!!
Posted by: Just | March 02, 2005 at 01:49 PM
*dabs fresh kleenex (not Scott brand either) at her eyes*
Awh, Debbie! Thats got to be the sweetest story! Congratulations! Does he have a brother? For me? Not gay also and single?
Posted by: Di | March 02, 2005 at 01:49 PM
Debbie -- my mom told me about her college roommate who dated guys she didn't like and assumed that she was gay for two years before going back to church with her. Yeah, assumptions can make things really weird.
Hmmm...I remember a movie called Chasing Amy that was a bit funnier in covering this than I am.
So...if blowing off a flirt makes someone gay, I really wonder what people have been saying about me since junior high. Just a curious type of wondering, though. I don't think I want to actually know.
Posted by: Alex D. | March 02, 2005 at 01:56 PM
Di,
Both brothers are spoken for. Too old for you anyway.
But... didn't you have a pretty good date with a sweet young thang last night? If I can recall all the way back to this morning, you were feeling good enough to shake your danishes 'round the moat, no?
Posted by: Debbie | March 02, 2005 at 01:59 PM
Oh, right...forgot to mention that I'm NOT gay.
Posted by: Alex D. | March 02, 2005 at 01:59 PM
*puts hand up*
Also had crush on gay men. Several of them, actually. Dated two.
And Brat, if I'd known it was going to cause problems, I would never have posted that story about the doctor's visit.
Everybody, for the record, I didn't see the doctor's behavior as sexual harrassment, just... weird. He is a very good doctor, and I'm sure he is a fine man. I thought it was a funny situation!
Posted by: neophyte | March 02, 2005 at 02:04 PM
Alex,
Haven't guys been using the "she's probably a lesbian" line for years to assuage their bruised egos after their attempt to attract a woman (read: drunken, dry-humping) somehow failed to ignite sparks?
Posted by: Debbie | March 02, 2005 at 02:05 PM
Beats me. I don't try to attract women with drunken dry-humping.
Posted by: Alex D. | March 02, 2005 at 02:07 PM
And Brat, you can't wander off, you are handcuffed to the bar.
Posted by: neophyte | March 02, 2005 at 02:09 PM
so, you're usually sober, Alex?
Posted by: Debbie | March 02, 2005 at 02:10 PM
Holy Cow!!!
In three days, we've had over 600 posts! At this rate, we'll be outta here before St. Pat's Day. And we used to think a month on a Moat wasn't long enough.
*goes to install wheels on the Moat furniture to make future moves easier*
Posted by: slyeyes | March 02, 2005 at 02:14 PM
*from the MB*
off topic comment: today jeff meyerson and his lovely wife, djtonyb, and i met here in beautiful downtown miami. it was cool.
that is all.
Posted by: judi on March 2, 2005 06:30 PM
When did Jeff and djtonyb get married and why weren't we invited????
Posted by: slyeyes | March 02, 2005 at 02:22 PM
Nice! Slyeyes I was ready to post the same thing (sans witty question).
"Imagine" by Perfect Circle? Anyone else notice that remakes of old songs are fairly hot? at least young artists might finally be acknowledging that they need to reach back to find good stuff. (oooh, catty today, eh?)
Insomniac, a male prima dona is a "prig". Some might suggest that there is no word for a self-centered male since it would be redundant. I'm not one of them.
[still shuddering with heebie jeebies]
Neo, nice story. Could Susan read it for us as a bedtime story? I know all the MOATies will sleep better being lulled to rest with that.
Posted by: Deon | March 02, 2005 at 02:31 PM
Hi all on the gay guys front. My wife found out her first husband was gay when she caught him with another fellow. Although word on the street is he is married and with kids now.
Maybe he is biosexual.
Posted by: kingw MBE LP | March 02, 2005 at 02:58 PM