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March 31, 2004

MORE MANNERS

I can't contribute the time to read the 400+ comments on your original manners question, however I saw that one of the initial comments referred to using a wheelchair to avoid lines in amusement parks. I'm amazed that we don't see more people doing this. Every time we head to one, one of us breaks out the crutches or an old knee brace and the first place we head is to the wheel-chair rental place. In fact, at most amusement parks, the wheelchairs are free (I can only assume they don't want cripples further injuring themselves on-site). Then you simply head up the exit ramps of each ride and are put on immediately. I would estimate we get about 2-300% more rides than the average line-waiting chimp.

Of course, a few of these times, either myself or one in my party actually has had a real injury, but this is the exception, not the norm. A couple years ago at Disneyland we were actually given priority parking before we even got into the park itself. I actually had injured myself that time, so I didn't feel too bad.
I justify this practice quite easily in my head when I look at the costs of an average day in an amusement park. But, do I need to justify it at all? If people don't actually realize that I am dishonestly cutting in line, does that make it wrong?

Don't answer that.

David C Knowles

Comments

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W00t first post...

sorry... Knee-jerk reaction

Yes, Dave, you need to justify it. I mean, if you don't, who will? :-0

His first statement that he "I can't contribute the time to read...." says it all.

A rude, unethical, egotistical, lazy, selfish, person...

This post made me mad as heck..

And, I really hope he comes back to read the responses to his "comments"...but he probably doesn't have the time...

"I justify this practice quite easily in my head when I look at the costs of an average day in an amusement park."

What about the thousands of other, honest, people who have paid just as much as you have to get in that you are taking advantage of?

Why not rob a bank, I mean after all, have you seen the cost of living these days?

I agree! Hear hear! Vote Dave off the island!

At Six Flags, they offer (for additional cost) special speed passes that allow the bearer to by-pass the line and get directly on the ride.

The first time I saw that, I was highly annoyed at the group that butted ahead of me and my kids. When I mentioned it to the ride attendant, she explained the concept.

Extra big money maker for the park and really irritating for those of us who have abided by the park's original system of lines. What if EVERYONE bought a speed pass ... what then?

ok... I could justify severe bodily harm on anyone using that practice. If you pretend such things, the rest of us are duty-bound to make it real.

New FCC regulations prevent me from expressing my opinion as to your behavior.

"I would estimate we get about 2-300% more rides than the average line-waiting chimp."

But let's be honest now. Do those extra rides have the same fun value as if you don't have a wheelchair? *tsk tsk* I think not. The real thrill comes from battling your way through the line to find that the ride is shut down for the day.

Universal Studios also offer a "speed pass" kind of thing... But I LOVED the fact that, on my last visit, the lines were short and the people who shelled out the extra $30 bucks each didn't get in any quicker than I did with my "poor person's stand in line" pass.... :-)

Actually, they only sell a certain number of those SpeedPass type things per day. It adds to the "elite status" feel of shelling out another $50 to the corporate entertainment business...

And last I checked, that extra bundle of cash bought you something like eight cutsies - it's not even unlimited! I guess the theme parks decided to cash in on rude people's egotistical behavior without causing all out riots in the two-hour-line behind them...

David Knowles,

Can I have your sister's Beyoncé's phone number?

Just the fact that the author (and I use the term loosely) uses the word "cripple" to describe the disabled people he's imitating tells me everything I need to know.

"If people don't actually realize that I am dishonestly cutting in line, does that make it wrong?"

If people at your company don't realize you're skimming profits, does that make it wrong? Let your conscience, or lack thereof, be your guide, buddy. Karma is a wonderful thing.

Flame on, Bloggers!

Just the fact that the author (and I use the term loosely) uses the word "cripple" to describe the disabled people he's imitating tells me everything I need to know.

"If people don't actually realize that I am dishonestly cutting in line, does that make it wrong?"

If people at your company don't realize you're skimming profits, does that make it wrong? Let your conscience, or lack thereof, be your guide, buddy. Karma is a wonderful thing.

C, David Know Les(s)

I don't believe this guy actually does this. I think he just posted that as a "shocker" and was evidently successful.

Then again, maybe I just have too much faith in human beings.

Let me know if you ever need anyone to break your kneecaps... ya know... just in case someone actually tests you to see if you really do need a wheelchair.

David C Knowles, you are an idiot.

Doug, can you tell us what that name can be anagrammed into?

What a wanker.

I prefer the anagram "Lewd Vodka Sin" (just leave out my middle initial).

Apparently none of you read the last line of my original comment.

Oh that is wrong!
Worse than using the handicapped bathroom stall when there are others available.
Seriously though, why should one person get this advantage over others when he does not deserve it? Just because he thought of the idea and had the guts to do it? Doesn't cut it in my book.

As The Ethicist in the NY Times Magazine would say, when it comes to ethics, intent DOES matter. If I figure out how to commit a murder and not get caught, does that make it legal or morally acceptable? What a stupid question.

This isn't about "manners," this is about a profound lack of a moral compass.

See, I think this is the time people step back from the keyboard, take a breath, and do a little research on the concept of "trolling" before posting again.

Disneyworld has the Fast Pass system. There, you don't pay extra money for it but it's free with their "hopper" passes, which actually turn out to be little more than regular passes and the real value is in the transfer between parks during a single day.

With those, you go to the ride for which you want a fast pass and get a ticket that tells you what time to come back. You can only enter the special line during your timeslot. Also, you can't get one for another ride until you're within 30 minutes (or something) of the timeslot for the last one you did.

The truth is, these probably work out for everyone in that the people who get fastpasses then aren't all standing in line at the same time for the ride. This encourages them to instead to other rides (which would be less popular and have shorter lines), thus actually making the line for the popular ride shorter by a larger margin than the additional wait for the fast-passers to go first.

In other words, it regulates the line. At the end of the day, the same number of people will have ridden whether there were fast passes or not, but the line was more regulated and average wait time for the popular ride would be lower while wait time for the less popular rides would be a bit higher.

Not to mention....Do you think there's some rule or law against it (you never know these days!). Like "Wrongfully Jumping to the Front of The Line Because You're Pretending to be Handicapped" fraud? If you park in a handicapped parking space w/o special license plate or tag, you get ticketed. (Or would the wheelchair be your special tag in this case....)

It was a JOKE people -- tongue-firmly-in-cheek! You know better!

I hang my head in shame for the group...

I think I speak for all of us when I say David C. Knowles (if that is his name, and the entire story isn't just BS) should be beaten with sticks until he needs a wheelchair for real. What an asshole.

B-man's right,this guy's fake.The name,other things in his letter..early April Fools? But just in case I'm going to start "Kung Foo Fighting" the next 'sucka I see in a wheelchair to see if they're a fraud!! HII YAA!!

Mike, as much as I hate to say it, I don't think this guy is a troll. I would agree with you had he posted this in the comments section of the original question. But, I'm under the impression that he e/mailed this directly to Dave, who then posted it for our comments....

If it was a joke it was totally not funny.

The only time we ever took "advantage" of the handicapped seating was when my wife was on crutches for breaking bones in BOTH feet and we had tickets for concerts at Jones Beach. We had no choice (obviously) as to walking up the stairs, but she still had to hobble quite a ways on crutches to the special section. Yeah, the seats were better but I would hardly call it worth doing if you weren't actually hobbled.

Alex,that's why I said EARLY april fool(key word:early)

I only club baby seals when their mother's aren't looking. I only drink out of the milk carton when my wife isn't looking. I only speed when cops aren't looking. I only post trolls/flamebait when several thousand Dave Barry fans *are* looking.

He may be trolling. What's interesting is that he has solicited such a vehement response. I mean, basically he is cutting in line, which has already been discussed, and while people don't like it they aren't this emotional.

And he's going to the effort to spare people's feelings by giving them a reason for his cutting (apparent injury) rather than simply cutting because he knows someone further up in line or simply asserts social entitlement.

Here's a thought - why should people in wheelchairs get to cut in line? If anything, they are MORE comfortable waiting, since they get to sit.

Anyways, it's interesting that deceptive line cutting is worse than "regular" line cutting. What if he pretended to be an blind, orphaned nun with a severe skin condition? Could he be legally killed?

Yes. Unless he paid for the blind-orphan-nun-with-zits speedpass.

Hey, JT, remember: Jesus healed the cripples.

He didn't engage in rehabilitative strategies for the physically disadvantaged.*

And to Alex: Well, Miss Manners would certainly like to think so.

And to the couple people who seem to have missed the signature and think *Dave* wrote any of that (though admittedly, the broken italicization doesn't help)... D'oh!

(* Ok, yes, it's Carlin's. That's sort of *why* it's funny, no?)

I checked with God on the wheelchair issue and no, you may not get into heaven now.

Karma dictates that David C Knowles will be injured in a freak roller coaster accident caused by being first in line. This injury will require him to be wheelchair bound, yet unable to ride roller coasters in the future.

Why not pretend one of your children has cancer and accept donations - oh wait, that's not original.

I think we are missing the real point here:Carl Douglas has a greatest hits CD? Whats next, a box set?Will he sell "speed passes" to get you to the front of line at his press tour? How many people have become handicapped from listening to said CD?
I say we all get chinese for lunch..

And yes "David C Knowles" can be rearranged to form "Sloven Dick Wad". But you probably shouldn't call him that. He could go tinkerbell on our asses...

Dave just tossed this out to us like we were a snarling pack of manner-dogs, just to watch us tear the carcass apart. Like we were just some sort of experiment or something, or to keep us viscious. Cool!

'So, maybe this particular testimonial is false, but it seems that Disneyland sees it as enough of a problem to change their policy:"
- b-man

Good link. I'd say 50/50 chance the original comment was true or false, but according to this link who cares. Obviously people are doing this, and they of course suck. I think the waiting area is a good idea, make them comfortable but make them wait as long as the rest of us. Of course you could always go "Clark Griswold" and ride all day for free.

I don't think he's a troll ... or that Dave made this up to enrage the commentors.

He's real. He really does it. You can just tell it's true. That's why everyone is so ticked!

I agree with Chris above: Dave Knowles will be crippled in a freak roller coaster accident!

Seriously, just because you read it on the internet doesn't mean you should take it seriously; I'll bet at least 25% of what you read isn't true. And on Dave Barry's blog, it probably goes up to 20%. :-)

I'll bet if you checked, it's not that easy to do what he said. And if it were true, I doubt that he would give a complete name, with middle initial and all. Come on, it's a joke (I have to believe that - I need my illusions).

Marty
"Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves."
- Carl Jung

I believe EVERYTHING that Dave posts on this website is true. He often says that he "is not making this up." That's good enough for me.

Should we all chip in and send Dave one of those shirts?

Woven lad dicks

Swank cod devil

at the last crows concert i went to, september 5th 2003, after which the lovely adam duritz actually spoke to me, yes it's true, and smiled, too, and i will never forget it as long as i live, at THAT concert, there were two girls who got handicapped seating in the front row next to me by wheeling one of them in in her grandmother's wheelchair. i thought it was pretty clever of them. hey, when it comes to the crows, whatever it takes, man, whatever it takes.

But what if everyone in line is even MORE reprehensible? Then is it ok to cut?

I mean, what if it was "Nazi Day" at Disney?

What if time waiting in lines at amusement parks comes directly off your sentance in purgatory? Then he's doing you a favor, and with no thanks!

Or, judging by the comments, he actually is handicapped - it's just that he needs a wheelchair for his soul, which Disney does not provide.

Abuse of handicapped privileges is not confined to amusement parks. In Florida it's rare to see someone with a wheelchair using handicapped parking. A blue decal seems to be regarded as some sort of a senior perk, like cheap coffee at McDonalds, or a dollar off at the Early Bird Buffet.

Well now I feel bad.

If he's 120 years old (see alex' post above), then he REALLY DOES need that wheelchair!

SLOVEN DICK WAD?

Wait, he gets to sit next to Punky on the way to Hell? I'm going to have to stop being such a nice guy, it just doesn't pay.

Whether this particular guy is for real or not, I know for a FACT that there are real people with this selfish, insulting attitude. I'm a regular visitor do Disneyland and see it ALL THE TIME. Disneyland has gone through great lenghts to try to prevent this kind of abuse, but it doesn't always work. It's pathetic.

And, for the record, Disneyland offers something similar to Magic Mountains "Speed Pass," but it's, get this, free! Anyone can use it. It's a great system, saves hours of lines if you know how to use it (and it's not hard to figure out).

My son is handicapped and we have been taken to the head of the line several times at amusement parks. At Disney World they will sometimes mark our "spot" in line and make us wait our turn. (Usually when the line is long.) When it is fairly short they don't bother.

As far as an able bodied family member using handicapped parking spots, I've had to endure some dirty looks when going into the mall to pick my son up. I alway try to limp a little to make people feel better.

Don't forget to contact eadn or myself for accomodations upon your arrival in lovely downtown Hades. We'll show ya's the sights and the good party places.

Although, there are lines to get into the 'Hot' spots, trying the handicapped bit won't help. No special consideration is given.

After all, it is Hell.

In summation, I think I'll have to go with Sean Collins: the idea that Carl Douglas has a greatest hits CD shows that Punky's preparations for that long train ride will be coming to all of us sooner rather than later. What next, the Starland Vocal Band?

One of my wife's friends recently went to Mohegan Sun to see David Cassidy perform (sic?) and said there were dozens of incredibly serious "fans" who really scared her. What a world, what a world, as the Wicked Witch once said. Oh the humanity.

I wouldn't be surprised if this [badword, rhymes with "gaspole"] uses a fake handicapped-parking pass so he doesn't have to walk the extra 30 feet to the grocery store. Lazy, lazy, lazy, both ethically and physically.

Chicken Boo, what's the matter with you?

You don't act like the other chickens do!

(He wears a diguise to look like human guys,
but he's not a man, he's a chicken boo!)

Sorry, you made *me* sing it and I had to share.

Okay, now YOU explain to all these impressionable kids why the teacher's face is suddenly bright red.

And I will hate myself for asking, but what flavor?

And, while I'm already on my way to Hell anyway, was wondering during the conversation between Punky and Rita, if E.L.Pixie's school store carries popsicles?

I am obviously not posting here enough...everyone is hitting on Punky but not on me.

Of all the anagrams so far, I like "Sloven D**k Wad" the best, although I can't write it out in full...Keep em coming guys! Good job! :)

Also, anyone who says "Don't answer that" to this lot is throwing bloody meat to piranhas. I mean, c'mon!

Popsicles: maybe the kind of popsicles they were selling at the sex fair? The 'cocksuckers'?

Blogchik, I think I can speak for the guy's when I say, we will be happy to hit on you.Will innuendo do, or shall we go full bore, ala Doug's hitting on MeL?

And, I'm telling you as a person who has tried them both, menthol coughdrops are better than the popsicles. Less clean up, and no chance of frostbite to either party.

Regardless of whether this guy's story is real, we all know that people do this. We've seen it. And yes, it's very easy to do.

The thing is, there's a very simple way to fix this. Use the system Disney used with Low Notes, marking the handicapped individual's place in line, and making everyone wait. It's the most fair solution available. I've seen it in practice, and I've never seen anyone complain. At that point, the fakers have no reason to tie up the limited number of wheelchairs that amusement parks have for their guests.

As for getting around the lines in other (park sanctioned) ways, I have extensive experience on this. The fast pass is okay, but since you can only have one at a time, and everyone gets them, they don't do all that much for the line. Of course, these can be abused to...using tickets of people that won't be going on the ride to get extra passes. (e.g. grandma comes too but doesn't want to ride the Tower of Terror...you can use her ticket to get a Fast Pass for the Rockin Roller Coaster or something). Point is, people will always find a way to get around the system for their own personal gain.

And the single riders line...it's just a beautiful thing. Who cares if you actually ride with your group (provided it's not family), as long as you spend the wait time together, which is longer than any ride anyway? I'll confess to feeling a tinge of guilt using it one time when I went through the single riders line four times on the Men in Black ride in the time that I saw one family trudge their way through once though. I got over it though.

Aww, Graz and Punky, my heart just went pitter-pat. :)

Graz- innuendo works fine.

Some physically handicapped people can apply for, and receive handicapped parking permits.

What should I apply for if I'm emotionally handicapped?

we're having fixed sitting arrangements?

I would apply, but I'm just... SO.... ANGRY!
No, I'm not. (sob)

We aim to please, MeL. Corrupting young people is my job.

And do we have to limit it to innuendo, Blogchik? I'm not all that clever.

Appropriate (or inappropriate) shopping list changes made. I'll be sure to park in the emotionally handicapped space (and bring MeL plenty of expired coupons).

And, while I'm randomizing, I just googled myself (and I got smarter)- turns out I am dead, married to several women, and a race car driver.

menthol? enlighten me.

Oh my God! I googled myself--and i just discovered our comments can be found on google.
i feel famous

Bangi_gurl, menthol is known for it's cooling properties. As I've said before, it is the alternating sensation effect that is the target.

Perhaps David C Knowles ia an avid desk clown...

Or perhaps he is a swank cod devil..

Aw.....

it's heartwarming, really. Watching a community form here in the comment boards. it's sort of like... a John Hughes movie.

There's the jock, the brain, the geek, the cheerleader, the freak, and... the slut.

;-)

Christobol: we get annoyed because people are taking advantage of special priviliges which we think they're entitled to because they have a larger cross to bear than we do.

It's somewhat akin to the reason wearing a bulletproof vest while robbing a bank is itself a felony. :-)

I sort of like 'give the persons' placeholder to the people in line, and if they see fit to promote their spot, let them' myself.

Elf: that's what you get for posting to Dave's boards from class. :-)

And Blognik: don't worry; we'll start hitting on you soon enough. Actually, there may be some back channel negotiations going on on the hitting-on front; interested parties on either side can contact Punky or me and we'll hook you up. Meet Me At... Dave's Blog.

I love it.

point noted graz
amazing how much cultural exchange can help.

Keep it up graz, when Dave is president, you can be an ambassador.

I'm so proud to live in this country - just look what you can do by taking advantage of others!

Sloven Dick Wad, you're the best capitalist I know.

I've worked two summers at Universal, and definately saw my share of people try to pull the "I'm in a wheelchair, now let me and my 47 closest buddies to the front of the line" move. Fortunately, all of our queue lines are wheelchair accessible, so the whole party can wait together, and if they'd prefer not to, they can pony up $25 a piece for Express passes, (which by the way, are limited in quantity or else they don't work) or go over to Guest Services, who, (unlike the Disney people who are taught to do anything the guests demand) will laugh at them, if necessary. The best part about this is that the impatient people have to wait through a long guest services line to get laughed at.

OK, I'm going to take a shot in the dark here and presuming David is real and practices this, he already knows it's wrong at least to himself.

Punky, I got a little worried about you inviting him on the train, but I'm already in Hell so I won't be there...maybe Graz will put him up for a while at the top of the Hilton with the elevators not working...sounds like he'll need the exercise to keep up ;-)

Blognik, (I do like "Blogchik" :-) may I have the next dance?

It's "disabled person" not "cripple" SHEESH!

Comment 100!

I'd like to thank the Academy, and Dave, and judi, oh and my Weebles, and all the characters on Romper Room individually, and Ally McBeal, and....

Thanks eadn.

So I have one vote for Blogchik. Do I have more? Let's put it to a vote. Who likes the nickname Blogchik, who likes the nickname Blognik?

I vote blogchik, that way I will remember to hit on you.

And of course, Punky was the only one who dared to ask - and who knew the answer already. But hey, you can get freaky anytime you want, sweetheart!

blogchic-n. being trendy on a blog site
i like.

blogchic-adj. being trendy on a blog site
i like.

D'OH! darned slow reflexes.strike off first comment.

Yes, but Bangi_gurl, do I really have the chic-ness to be blogchic? :)

So, thus far, we have two guys favoring Blogchik. Hmm. Trend developing? Discuss.

Did it really make us more viscous? Everybody still seems fairly fluid. (see post waaaay up on the list.)

Anyone who's a regular reader enough to remember back to the days when the whole anagram thing got started (hint: it was just after the urinal penny era) would be wise to go back in the archives and see if perhaps the "Lewd Vodka Sin" anagram I listed above is found anywhere in those days.

It would give quite a good tip to whether or not I am actually a real person. It wouldn't, however, give you any direction on whether or not I was serious about any of the comments I made that started this thread. You all seem to have taken your liberties with that so there's no point in arguing it with you at this juncture.

If you think the anagram thing got started around the "Urinal Penny Era", you are WAYYYYYY off base. Dave's been doing that gig, along with GNFARB for years . . . . .

But I do like the e-mail address you're using.

Please don't spread the popsicle/cough drop ideas to my roommates!
Horrors!

Yes and@notherthing.com is an intersting email address, even though it isn't valid.

Turns out that notherthing.com is still available to be registered...

Russ - Good point, and point taken. I tip my hat to an older and longer fan than I. But wasn't the urinal penny era the first time it got started on the last version of the blog? At least that's the first time I foudn it in the archives there. Just wondering.

Also, as far as email addresses, who the heck would be dumb enough to put a real address there? Especially me, on this thread. Phfft. I've been putting fake addresses in all my posts (see prior one here, or my original posts near the beginning of this new and improved blog, when I was saying what a silly idea it was to require an email address).

I have no idea when the anagram thing was actually started, nor the GNFARB, but it was long before the advent of the Internet. If Dave is still reading this (doubtful), maybe he (or his research department) can enlighten us on how the original idea came about.

On a side note, the first Dave Barry item I remember seeing is the now infamous exploding whale article, but I have no clue on the original publish date. In those days, we actually had to buy books or newspapers to read Dave's stuff!! How sad. (just kidding, Dave. I still buy your books) The first time I got to see the actual video was over either a 9600 or 14400 modem. I set it to download overnight at work, and then went home for the day.

And I do use an active e-mail address as do some others on this board. However, it is the same address I use on any public board. My "real" address is very closely guarded and gets very little spam. My public address mailbox basically stays full, but Norton AntiSpam does a surprisingly good job of keeping it cleaned out.

Sorry for the novel. I was just feeling a little nostalgic.

'Scuse my manners or lack thereof, personally, I don't care what e-mail address you use provided it is NOT someone else's legitimate address!

Given our only distinction on The Blog is a matter of style and the choice of a consistent moniker for identity, that's all I really care about in terms of community relations.

Elsewise, those who comment changing monikers and stringing their fingers across the keyboard for an address don't get much notice from me. Those who use a consistent moniker with a fake address are OK in my book. Security is very personal and, indeed, I have my own securities established though I use my preferred moniker and email address consistently and constantly.

Different ways and means, equivalent to the degrees of manners that have been discussed. To quote The Bible, "Every way of a man is right in his own eyes." (Somewhere in Proverbs I think) Given that, I believe in the philosophy of "rubbing shoulders" right up until someone decides his (or her) shoulder is the "front four", then I will choose my battle and if worthwhile, behave in terms of my own integrity.

David, if you've read all this, I really do wonder why after "Don't answer that.", you didn't just hit "Delete" instead of "Send"? That truly might be the ultimate question to ask. You answered yourself in your own last lines and yes, a tree does make a sound when it falls in the forest and no one knows it fell.

To All, I hope I got your carpets cleaned getting on my soapbox, hopefully this time only...? Take Care and Thank You

MeL, I did. But only up in the latest post...Are You OK?! given you responded to my last comment up there.

Even across-the-miles and probably never meeting, I'm, perhaps too, but nevertheless concerned! :-) ?

to this:
I have no idea when the anagram thing was actually started, nor the GNFARB, but it was long before the advent of the Internet. If Dave is still reading this (doubtful), maybe he (or his research department) can enlighten us on how the original idea came about.

all i can say is: about WBAGNFARB, you might check the web site (davebarry.com) for the list (not the you-can-participate list but the actual list on the site) and see if you can discern where it started. it contains all the references *I* could find to rock band names.

not at all sure about the anagrams. dave has a much better memory for these things than i do.

also, the 'moby yuck' column appears in 'dave barry talks back' which was published in 1991, so it was written sometime between 1988 (the previous book) and 1990ish.

judi, you are a PRIZE! And I'm glad Dave does seem to recognize Your Worth As Well!!

Late night for me tonight, but sleep tight, and don't let them bedbugs bite! Unless'n of course one happens to be Johnny Depp...or a reasonable look alike wit a bottle :-)

(not too mention your choice to be into a little nibbling ;-)

Hopefully, 'Nough said! And Thank You! Sweet MeL!

so, alex, post em on the site list, why don'tcha.

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