The Herald's Nancy San Martin reports that a growing number of Cubans are choosing to flee to Honduras on smuggling boats and are then trekking north through Mexico and crossing the border on foot.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/15054582.htm
Thanks for the link. I didn't know how to read the paper before you came along.
Posted by: cubanpatriot | July 17, 2006 at 02:11 PM
If this doesn't show that so called Cuban "refugees" are actually economic migrants then nothing will. If they were only trying to escape Cuba due to political persecution then they would apply for political asylum in the first safe country that they reached in accordance with U.N. Conventions.
These so called "refugees" are simply economic migrants. They are no different then the hordes of Mexicans flooding over our borders daily.
Who ever heard of a political dissident who was jailed going back to his country of origin to vacation and visit his family? The extent of this immigrantion fraud and abuse is mind boggleing.
Posted by: PeeWee Herman | July 17, 2006 at 05:23 PM
Why would they do that when they want to get to the US? Once at the Mex/US border they are dry foot. Everyone knows this.
Posted by: cubanpatriot | July 17, 2006 at 08:31 PM
CUBA, I REMEMBER YOU/CUBA, TE RECUERDO
By OSCAR M. RAMÍREZ-ORBEA, PH.D.
**Cuba, I Remember You is a book about family, love, relationships, and survival in difficult circumstances that all readers will find to be a wonderful reading experience.
Bettie Corbin Tucker
For IP Book Reviewers
Independent Professional Reviewers
See more about the book at:
http://cubairememberyou.zoomshare.com/
CUBA, I REMEMBER YOU/CUBA, TE RECUERDO
A collection of 14 short stories, all in Spanish and English, based on the author’s experiences of childhood before and after the Communist revolution. Includes Appendix for educators wishing to use the book in Spanish or English foreign language classes. Lots of nostalgia for those who knew Cuba in the 50’s and 60’s and plenty of humor for readers in general. Includes also many period family photographs that illustrate the stories and bring them vividly to life!
About the Author
Dr. Oscar M. Ramírez-Orbea, was born in Camagüey, Cuba, in 1955. He emigrated with his family to the US in 1966, after completing elementary school in his home country. He longs one day to return to his native city of Camagüey and to all the fond memories it holds for him. CUBA, I REMEMBER YOU/CUBA, TE RECUERDO is Dr. Ramírez’s first narrative work. More
Available now from Airleaf Publishing (www.airleaf.com) or call today to order your copy at 1-800-342–6068.
Product Details
Paperback: 392 pages
Publisher: Airleaf Publishing; 1st edition (January 10, 2006)
Language: English, Spanish
ISBN: 1594539553
By the same author:
Cuba, Between History and Legend
A collection of short stories based on Cuban legends and unusual histories, all told in thoroughly original and creative ways. All stories are narrated in English and Spanish on facing pages. Includes also substantial background information on the actual events on which the stories are based, as well as references for follow-up reading, and historical illustrations for all the stories. For brief descriptions of the stories, go to www.cubairememberyou.zoomshare.com On the market by year’s end. Cuba … like you’ve never read it before!
Por el mismo autor:
Cuba, Entre la Historia y la Leyenda
Una colección de cuentos cortos basados en leyendas cubanas y en eventos insólitos de la historia de Cuba, todos narrados en un estilo originalísimo y de gran fantasía. Se narran todos los cuentos en inglés y en español, en páginas opuestas. Incluye considerable información adicional sobre el fondo histórico de cada cuento, al igual que sugerencias para otras lecturas sobre la misma temática, y se incluyen ilustraciones históricas de cada uno de los cuentos. Para leer breves descripciones de cada cuento, favor de dirgirse a www.cubairememberyou.zoomshare.com En venta hacia finales del año. Cuba ¡como nunca te la imaginaste!
Posted by: Cuba5060 | July 17, 2006 at 08:56 PM
Economics=politics=economics=politics=economics=politics......there is not distinction in today's global market.
Posted by: a different thought | July 17, 2006 at 09:47 PM
John,
It's apparent that after you got your name hijacked by whom you think was Pee Wee Herman, you are now using his name to continue you obsessive campaign against Cuban Americans. Please tone down your rethoric or your are going to continue the offensive blog war that will drive people from here. Oscar does not do anything about it. It is apparent he does not even read his blog nor listen to your suggestions. Byt the way, it's spelled blogging, nor bloggeing. Cheers.
Posted by: Suse | July 18, 2006 at 09:32 AM
What Pee Wee (or John or whoever) posted above is pretty accurate. Dissidents don't usually return to the country they are fleeing until there has been a regime change. The "newly-arrived" Miami Cubans return to Cuba ASAP, especially if they have family there. However, it is a tough call if you have family over there and know of the conditions they are living in. If it means choosing between your principles and your family, you will forego your principles to ensure your family is cared for.
Posted by: a thought... | July 18, 2006 at 10:16 AM
A.T.:
I, too, am shocked by the insouciance with which recent Cuban refugees travel back and forth from the island. Virtually the first question which they ask upon landing here is: "When can I return to Cuba for a visit?" To say that this unsettling for the "exilio histórico" would be to put it mildly. I have myself been asked by newcomers when was the last time I visit Cuba, and when I tell them 50 years ago, their eyes open and their mouths drop as if they had just seen Robinson Crusoe.
We who left in the beginning never made any accommodation with Communism, either in Cuba or here; but those who stayed behind were obliged to make 1001 accommodations in order to survive, and even here continue to make accommodations with the regime.
I do not condemn them because each of us has lived his own reality, and I am not more qualified to judge them than they are to judge me.
Posted by: Manuel A. Tellechea | July 18, 2006 at 11:08 AM
Who is Cuba5060? I see him all over the blog plugging some book. Is that what this blog has turned into? A site for people to shill their stuff for free? I don't have a problem with people trying to make a living, but it gets kind of annoying.
Where is Nonee, ADT and the others? I haven't even seen the Ambassador lately. John, have you gotten all my friends deported?
Posted by: a thought... | July 18, 2006 at 01:28 PM
Oscar, send that Ramirez guy a bill... let him pay for the ad like everybody else...
Manuel: You say you don't judge the new-arrivals, because only they have lived their reality. Yet you are offended by the practice. How can you be offended yet non-judgemental? I want to understand the distinction.
AT: I think you're trapped in the vagaries of the economic vs. political debate. There really is no difference. Besides the fact that practically all of the arrivals no nothing more than "la revolucion", we are merely dealing with personal threshholds for tolerance. A decision is made to risk one's life, or a child's life even, when one can no longer survive under certain conditions... cuando no queda mas remedio. And it is the conditons created by the regime, (and no one else, U-sam), which are the yardstick by which that personal threshhold is measured. And yes, I agree with you the bloom is off the rose, that the cry of political persecution (or the presumption) has lost its meaning. I just start to wonder, did it ever really matter?
Posted by: nonee moose | July 18, 2006 at 02:16 PM
Yeah, Nonee, you're probably right about the vagaries. At this point, who knows?
The comment I made, though, was how fast these people that just (literally) got here go back to Cuba. That was not something afforded to the arrivals in the 60s. Unless I am missing something....
Posted by: a thought... | July 18, 2006 at 02:34 PM
"Manuel: You say you don't judge the new-arrivals, because only they have lived their reality. Yet you are offended by the practice. How can you be offended yet non-judgemental? I want to understand the distinction." — nonee
I said that I was "shocked" and "unsettled" by the attitude of the new arrivals. I did not say I was "offended." Although I do not judge them, I still reserve the right to be shocked and unsettled by them.
I will not judge them because only they have lived their own reality. But I will observe that their reality is very different from mine. Since it is impossible to reconcile them, it is best to let them co-exist.
I have elsewhere said on this blog that I hold all Cubans born after 1959 blameless for the sins of Communism. They are, in fact, its most tragic victims.
Posted by: Manuel A. Tellechea | July 18, 2006 at 03:10 PM
No, I rmemeber it the same as you do. However, the situation was different. At the time, the geopolitical scene was one of aggression, with lines between good and evil well-drawn. So ambivalence could not be tolerated. Also, the regime did not have the economic exigencies it has suffered from, at least as of the whithering of the soviet subsidy. Now? fuzzy political lines, and $1Bil in remittances, by some accounts. And ambivalence. Really, it's a function of time and the natural maturation of any political situation. Like it or not, the edges on this issue are not so sharp as they once were.
Clearly, the motivation for the "visitation rights", from the regime's perspective, is economic in nature. But aren't the visitations themselves economic in nature, on some level? And we can play what if, too. What if the visitation policy had been afforded? How many would have taken it up? I mean no disrespect to any of the "earlies", those include my parents and grandparents after all, but as an academic question can you claim a decision of conscience, when there was no decision to be made?
Posted by: nonee moose | July 18, 2006 at 03:25 PM
"the cry of political persecution (or the presumption) has lost its meaning. I just start to wonder, did it ever really matter?"
Are you guys' kidding me?
According to the 1951 Refugee convention and the 1967 protocol which extended it beyond World War II; Which the United States ratified, a refugee is:
"A person who is outside his/her country of nationality or habitual residence: Has a well- founded fear of persecution because of his/her race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group or political opinion; and is unable or unwilling to avail himself/herself of the protection of that country, or to return there, for fear of persecution."
Notice the last part:
"Unwilling to avail himself/herself of the protection of that country, OR TO RETURN THERE, FOR FEAR OF PERSECUTION."
When exiles return to Cuba to vacation they are by definition no longer refugees. They are both availing themselves to the protection of that country (the Cuban Police & military) and returning there.
How fucking ridiculous is that? Have you ever heard of political dissidents in Iran who were dragged into secret prisons by SAVAK and tortured for months on end going back to Iran? Hell no! They know that they will be imprisoned, tortured, or worse! Have you ever heard of refugees fleeing from Pol Pot's Communist rule going back to Khmer Rouge to visit their families? Or dissidents under Saddam's rule in Iraq going back to visit? Of course not.
Because these groups were legitimate refugees' not economic migrants. If the Cubans fleeing to Honduras were really refugees and not political migrants they would be happy to get the hell out of Cuba and simply settle there.
But when they land in a 'safe' country, refuse to apply for asylum in the first safe country that they escaped to, and then try to illegally enter a comparatively wealthy 3rd or in this case 4th country, they are clearly economic migrants.
If you want to read the whole document you can check it out here:
http://www.unhcr.org/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/protect/opendoc.pdf?tbl=PROTECTION&id=3b66c2aa10
Posted by: Juan (Pancho) Valquez | July 18, 2006 at 03:29 PM
Manuel, fair enough. I did not mean to put words in your mouth. I misspoke.
I will tell you that this is a perfect place to insert U-sam's hypocrisy argument, and the damage done by the embargo. You know I don't buy that argument, in part because I think too little of righteousness that screams hypocrisy, no matter how sincere the righteousness may be. I will prefer to characterize it as ambivalence, in a search to reconcile all the interests on the scale. Add to that the spectacular failure in trying to do so.
The attitude that shocks you, I also do not understand. But my upbringing did not lack absolutes on that subject (I am proud that it did lack extremes, however). So I understand what you mean by unsettling, it is a new attitude. Like reggaeton music. It just makes me shake my head...
Posted by: nonee moose | July 18, 2006 at 03:36 PM
Hey A.T., Nonee, John, Manuel and Co. back from a little vacay in the Key West (love that place, John would find the Cuban-Americans who live there to be very different from the Miami Cuban-Americans)
Interesting topic, my thoughts....
In Cuba's case, because the politcal regime creates the economic conditions that cause emigration, there is no distinction between political and economic refugee.
I feel the reasons that these newer Cubans return so quickly is multifold. The very first is obviously that they can. I don't remember my parents having that choice, but then again, I also remember my father saying he would never give a cent of his money to the Castro.
But, also, like I beleive I've said before, that those brought up under Communism have a much more pragmatic approach to life than the rest of us. I believe they're taught to always recognize and take the shortest, quickest road. Probably because of the scarcity of resources under which they grew up. Anyway, pragmatically, many of them go to continue to maitain the relatives that remain.
I personally do not believe that Cubans brought up under Castro have that type of dedication to any cause other that self betterment, and agian that's based on that pragmatic, efficiency thing
Posted by: a different thougt | July 18, 2006 at 04:15 PM
I have not been driven off, just busy looking for work in order to fulfill the american dream
Posted by: manny o. | July 18, 2006 at 04:22 PM
"In Cuba's case, because the politcal regime creates the economic conditions that cause emigration, there is no distinction between political and economic refugee."
Once again there is a world of difference between a REFUGEE or POLITICAL DISSIDENT and an ECONOMIC MIGRANT. Those differences are spelled out for you in detail above.
Saying that there is no difference because of a countries fiscal policies is one of the most ignorant things I've ever heard.
A refugee is:
"A person who is outside his/her country of nationality or habitual residence: Has a well- founded fear of persecution because of his/her race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group or political opinion; and is unable or unwilling to avail himself/herself of the protection of that country, or to return there, for fear of persecution."
The U.S. government agreed to and helped created this definition when it ratified the 1951 Refugee convention and the 1967 protocol.
Cuban exiles who return to Cuba or who do not apply for asylum in the first safe country they reach clearly do not meet this definition and should have their residency privileges revoked.
Posted by: Juan (Pancho) Valquez | July 18, 2006 at 04:29 PM
Pancho, I agree with you. Take yes for an answer. I am not kidding you.
But I think you miss my point. The root of any disagreement with the revolution as it was occurring was first and foremost property rights. Expropriation of private businesses, confiscation of homes, etc. Granted, there were other more esoteric concepts which were in flux, like religious and other freedoms (speech, etc.), but I've heard the tragic lament of the exile, and that lament never begins "In Cuba before that so-and-so came along, we used to be able to go to church on Sunday...". Rather, it goes "...we had planes, trains, and automobiles..." I am generalizing for effect, of course. But outside of a very small group of Batista loyalists, who would necessarily have to be eliminated under the rules of revolution, very few others would qualify as pure political refugees. Remember, the communist regime/revolution is to be feared in great part because of its intended abrogation of private property rights, and i think from there stem the more egregious violations of civil and human rights associated with the regime.
Why do you think reclamation of property is such a big point of discussion even now? So if you accept that even a smidgeon of the early exodus had something to do with property issues, then the use of the term refugee was in fact just a political construct dictated by the times and nothing more.
Even having laid bare the fiction of the political refugee, I don't have a problem with that, sorry. There are many others from other countries in similar situations that did not get the benefit of that fiction as readily, or may have had a truer claim to it, by someone's standards, and that is unfortunate. But that's not on the exile community's head, where so many want to lay the blame...
Posted by: nonee moose | July 18, 2006 at 04:55 PM
ADT: Did you eat at My Blue Heaven? Is it even still around? Its a great little place, Tables outside with chickens roaming around the sawdust floor... almost surreal.
Posted by: nonee moose | July 18, 2006 at 04:59 PM
Nice to see the blog is returning to normalcy (at least as much as we've ever managed here).
I do think many Cuban inmigrants motives are economic but at the same time, if you think the economic policies in the case of Cuba can be unlinked to the political regime, you are deluding yourself. And enough with the myth of "recent arrivals" being different. Even if you go back to the 60s, some people came here for purely political motives (people who actively participated in movements against the government or simply didn't agree with living in a communist country) but also many came for economic reasons. People who had their property confiscated for example and all of a sudden either had to find a job and adapt to a different standard of living or simply they were the entrepeneurial type and wanted to continue being owners of their business, well that property was confiscated following a political motivation, but it was still the economic loss that triggered their leaving.
The issue here is when we attach a "moral" significance to political refugees vs. economic migrants in black and white terms. To me one is no more worthy than the other per se, if you want a better life for your family and are willing to work hard for it your motives are just as deserving of the opportunity as if you are a political dissident.
Where the traditional Cuban Americans are right is that all Cubans in the island potentially face some kind of persecution, from social ostracism to harrasement to repression, if they go against the regime, but not necessarily in political terms. See how much economics and politics are linked in Cuba, people can go to jail for such economic "crimes" as being too successful in private enterprises even if it's allowed, such as the "paladares", because they represent "burgeouisie tendencies" and set a bad example for the rest of Cubans. Witness Operation "Pitirre en el alambre" among others.
Lastly, I believe that were the 60s migrants allowed to return to Cuba in a year or send money, they would have done it. Plenty of them did it in the 70s a soon as it was allowed. Plentu of them send money too, the ones who still have family in Cuba. Of course we can't ever prove this for sure, but I don't think the 60s exiles were more "principled" than us.
Posted by: gansibele | July 18, 2006 at 05:11 PM
Damn Nonee, you have to stop taking the words out of my mouth.
Posted by: gansibele | July 18, 2006 at 05:13 PM
And start shoving your cock inside my mouth instead. I'll gladly swallow all you have to give until your sack is empty.
Posted by: gansibele | July 18, 2006 at 06:22 PM
hey, it ain't even my birthday... LOL
Posted by: nonee moose | July 18, 2006 at 06:29 PM
i guess so much for typepad...
Posted by: nonee moose | July 18, 2006 at 06:30 PM
Holy green pea soup! Did Gansi pull an "Excorcist" on that last post? Just when we were starting another great discussion, someone went ahead and invited Satan to join in...
Posted by: a thought.... | July 18, 2006 at 07:28 PM
We don't have to wait for your birthday big boy! I just want to make all of your fantisies come true. Treat me like the dirty slut I am! Just make sure you amarrame a la cama y mamame el boyo. Que tu crees? Let me know papi because this is a limited time offer. ;)
Posted by: gansibele | July 18, 2006 at 07:42 PM
LOL... temperamental geniuses, go figure.
Posted by: nonee moose | July 18, 2006 at 07:44 PM
gansi, what's gotten into you? you never talk dirty to me like that... the "operation" must have backed up on you!
Posted by: nonee moose | July 18, 2006 at 07:47 PM
What is wrong we being horny? We all get horny sometimes. I'm just tell you how I feel. So you don't want any of this sweet, sweet, pussy? Well I guess that's your loss. To be honest my friend brought over some ecstasy and talked me into trying it so I feel a little funny right now. I just want you all to know how much I love you. I want to be intimate with each and every one of you, I'm having the best time I ever have. So are you willing to come over to my house to have some fun John and Moose. Don't be a bunch of prudes. Just go with it.
Posted by: gansibele | July 18, 2006 at 08:25 PM
you know gansi, it feels so much cooler when move your hands up and down real close to your face and go "tu-ru-ru" repeatedly...
Posted by: nonee moose | July 18, 2006 at 08:37 PM
mongo like pussy...
Posted by: nonee moose | July 18, 2006 at 08:37 PM
Manuel...things done changed. Those are old semantics created to try to control a an old fashioned immigration policy. It's Castro's politics that creates the conditions.....besides, I'm sorry but politics are economics in today's world. And, I also find the moral distinction that you attach to "economic" vs. "political" refugee to be disgusting. Anyone who flees a country to give their family a better life deserves respect not contempt to try to appease your own idiosyncratic fears.
Nonee, yes, I did, in fact go to Blue Heaven for breakfast one day, can't go to Key West and not go there.
Posted by: a different thought | July 18, 2006 at 08:41 PM
El Conductor -
What are you doing here? Get back to baboon blog!! MMM Baboons the thought of their big red asses makes me horny!
Posted by: gansibele | July 18, 2006 at 09:04 PM
I am so glad Pee Wee is dead. Only the real pee wee is talking now. The impersonator fake pee wee child molestor is also dead.
Folks remember the ip address can be traced by the FBI. I dont want anyone knocking on my door
the real pee wee. Not the sick one
Posted by: Pee Wee Herman | July 18, 2006 at 09:24 PM
ADT to Manuel: "I also find the moral distinction that you attach to 'economic' vs. 'political' refugee to be disgusting."
Sorry, wrong number. I have not made such a distinction, though, actually, such a distinction is possible.
E.g.: A refugee from Pinochet's Chile would certainly be a political refugee, but would not be an economic refugee, because Chile under Pinochet enjoyed its greatest prosperity in history.
In case it passed you by: In authoritarian states it is possible to be just a political refugee without also being an economic refugee.
In Communist states, everyone is both a political and economic refugee, since those concepts are inseparable in the Marxist paradigm.
Posted by: Manuel A. Tellechea | July 18, 2006 at 09:30 PM
Manuel, sorry for the misattribution....
I understand your distinctions, and happen to agree, I just do not agree that it's a morality issue.
Posted by: a different thought | July 18, 2006 at 09:37 PM
And for the record, my earlier comments about the distinction between earlier and later Cuban refugees vis a vis pragmatic attitudes does not imply any kind of judgment call on that attitude or morality judgment on my part.
Posted by: a different thought | July 18, 2006 at 09:41 PM
No we havn't. Why would we want to stare at your ugly beetle browed ass? Now go crawl back into the hole that you came out of.
Posted by: gansibele | July 18, 2006 at 09:54 PM
Hey Long john what's with your obsession with Val Prieto and Henry Gomez? Are you gay for them or what?
Posted by: cubanpatriot | July 18, 2006 at 09:56 PM
Well I find Val Prieto kind of hot! I had this sexy dream about him last night when I bent him over like a dog and made him bark. Ahh that's the life.
Posted by: gansibele | July 18, 2006 at 09:59 PM
The moron who's posting under my name doesn't know that: a) I'm a guy b)Conductor is my friend, we have worked together for seven years now.
We can still have a intelligent discussion here if we ignore him. Or if Oscar and the Herald blog policy allows and doesn't care for the hijacking of the blog, maybe go somewhere else.
Posted by: gansibele | July 18, 2006 at 11:26 PM
"And for the record, my earlier comments about the distinction between earlier and later Cuban refugees vis a vis pragmatic attitudes does not imply any kind of judgment call on that attitude or morality judgment on my part."
I don't think it does, for you personally, but the attitude in many older exiles is that they are "pure" exiles, they came for political reasons, they'll never go back or send money, the new ones who go back as soon as they can are "dirtying" the cause, etc. There's a recent discussion at babalu about this. I'm not critizicing those who think that way genuinely and as a matter of principle.
Completely agree with Manuel's distinction and the Chile example BTW.
Posted by: gansibele | July 18, 2006 at 11:49 PM
nuff said
where is long john caca lou dobbs..
Have you notice that everytime Val prieto and the conductor come here longjohn is long gone..
John are you afraid of someone like MR prieto and the conductor when they tell you the truth about cuba?
dont run caoward .. stay for a while..
please stop what you are doing hickjacking my name, we got enough divisions in our exile community and we dont new a new one.
Posted by: Pee Wee Herman | July 19, 2006 at 12:07 AM
Gansi,
You are right our fathers do believe that, at least mine does. But, I think people such as myself who can see ecomonic immortality beyond Capitalism and Communism, (aren't many Capitalistic multinational corporations today responsible for the destruction of the environment and resources in amany third world countries?), are sick of the b------t, and want a change. I, for one, would like to visit Cuba and see it free in my lifetime. Call me selfish, but every populace from a diaspora wants that. Enough time has passed, doesn't reason and respect for humanity enter the equation at some point?? Or, am I still naive??
Posted by: a different thought | July 19, 2006 at 05:20 PM
I am Spartacus...er, Oscar!
Posted by: nonee moose | July 19, 2006 at 06:44 PM
PeeWee,
A Juan Largo le diste tremenda partida de culo al igual que a Oscar. Deben de haber agotado el Preparation-H.
Posted by: Liborio | July 19, 2006 at 08:51 PM
Sin duda Corral usa varios nombres en su blog, ya que entre los escritores del Herald compiten por ver quien tiene mas lectores del blog. Asi trata impresionar a su jefe, aunque la verdad que el contenido de este blog es mas mierda que otra cosa, a la par de lo que escribe Corral.
Posted by: Liborio | July 19, 2006 at 08:55 PM
liborio, dejate de pendejadas y vuelvete a lavar platos, comemierda... y llevate al pee wee contigo. que machotes mas inteligentes los dos! si quieren joder de verdad, aqui me tienen...
Posted by: nonee moose | July 19, 2006 at 10:08 PM
y para que lo sepan, que yo si no soy el Oscar... a mi si no me pagan por joder la pita aqui....
Posted by: nonee moose | July 19, 2006 at 10:10 PM