« La Politica at Versailles | Main | Cuban Spies or Heroes? Two Opposing Versions »

Comments

John Longfellow aka Lou Dobbs

Many people think that CANF and CLC has and continues to be an internal Cuban-American terrorist organizations. Its only mission is to fund raise from poor Cuban immigrants, and use those funds for their personal bank accounts. Both of those corrupted organizations should be completely and totally dismantled under a Democratic adminstration. As the CANF/CLC are filled with corrupt cockroached Miami Cubans, who steal from their own people, to buy more expensive homes, cars, and expensive trips.

Nuff said,

John

nonee moose

wow, loujohn... i think you just wiped yourself with the Constitution... no matter.

look, maybe we can handle it this way: if we want any shit from you, we'll just squeeze your head, ok?

otherwise, go back to your research project... i'm sure there are a lot of dinosaurs left to color in for the back of your book report...

Online Orestes

PROTEST TRAVEL BAN at Rep Diaz Balart's Office
START DATE: 6/3/2006
START TIME: 10:30 AM
Duration: 2 Hours
Location: REP. LINCOLN DIAZ BALART\'S OFFICE
Location Details:
87 Ave. NW 53 Street
Miami
Event Topic: PROTEST AGAINST THE CRUEL TRAVEL BAN
Event Type: Demonstration

DESCRIPTION:
JOIN MIAMI\'S PROGRESSIVE CUBAN COMMUNITY
THIS SATURDAY AT 10:30 AM AT:

REP. LINCOLN DIAZ BALART\'S OFFICE
87 Ave. NW 53 Street.

PROTEST AGAINST THE CRUEL TRAVEL BAN THAT HAS TAKEN AWAY THE RIGHTS OF CUBANS LIVING IN THE US TO VISIT THEIR FAMILIES IN CUBA. THE TRAVEL BAN HAS ALSO BEEN IMPOSED ON ALL OF THE COUNTRIES ACADEMIC & HEALTH RESEARCH INSTITUTIONS.

CUBANS LIVING IN THE US UNDER BUSH\'S ANTI-FAMILY LAW CAN NEVER BE GIVEN TO VISIT RELATIVES OUTSIDE OF THEIR IMMEDIATE FAMILY (Mom, dad, brother, sister, sons or daughters only) AND HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY OF VISITING CUBA

ONLY ONCE EVERY THREE YEARS. IT IS NOW ILLEGAL TO SEND ITEMS SUCH AS SOAP OR DEODORANT AND CASH REMMITTANCES ARE LIMMITED.

THIS IS CRUEL AND UNUSUAL LEGISLATION. IT IS ALSO UNCONSTITUTIONAL!

PLEASE COME AND SEND REP. LINCOLN DIAZ BALART THE MESSAGE:

END THE TRAVEL BAN NOW!!!

usambcuba

Online Orestes, I wish I could have joined you in person and all the others suffering from this insane policy that is ours and does NOTHING to change Cuba. Please tell us how the rally went.

The most powerful things you can do is to make sure everyone who is not a citizen yet, applies for naturalization. Everyone who is a citizen should immediately register to vote. And then you should all rally at the office of Frank Gonzalez, the Democratic Candidate for Congress and Diaz Balart's opponent this November. Make a donation to Gonzalez's campaign and make sure everyone who is registered does turn out to vote for Gonzalez this November. Lincoln really needs to read up on Abraham Lincoln, his namesake.

ORESTES EL COBARDE

ONLINE ORESTES YOUR TRUE COLORS ARESHINING THROUGH NOW. IN THE OTHER POST YOU CLAIM THAT THE FIVE "SON HEROES" ELLOS SON ESPIAS CONTRA SUS PROPIOS HERMANOS! THEY ARE SPYING ON THEIR OWN PEOPLE! HOW DID YOURE LITTLE PROTEST GO? LET ME GUESS LESS THAN FIVE PEOPLE TURNED UP

Manuel A. Tellechea

NEWSFLASH:

New Jersey has already sent to Washington the first Democrat Cuban-American senator (Robert Menéndez) and in tomorrow's election will send the first Democrat Cuban-American representattive (Albio Sires). Both are radical liberals in all respects but one -- their common opposition to Castro's regime and support of the trade embargo. When it comes to Castro, at least, there are no Republicans or Democrats among Cuban-Americans -- just enemies of the regime.

a thought....

Okay, friends. Please enlighten me. I do not know anything about the Cuban Liberty Council. What does it mean exactly that they felt that CANF was getting "soft" on Castro? Help me out.

vote gringo

If less than five people showed up for the rally, it was probably because the feared for the safety of themselves and their family, or perhaps that they didn't relish the idea of having the business they have labored to build fire bombed.

gringos will always lose

votegringo, what business>? this is a "progressive" protest ste up by a guy who called castros five minions heroes. do me a favor and stay out things you have no idea about.

another gringo loss

if less than five people showd up ist because the majority of cubans are too smart and proud to follow a fwe "progreessive" assholes

a thought....

What is the Cuban Liberty Council?????

nonee moose

Generally, these are the "hardliners" formerly of CANF. CLC is the breakaway group that was formed when the ideological rift occurred within the leadership. (Some of our more liberal denizens will scoff at that remark...) From what I know, and that's very little, it was more of an "old guard/new guard" issue. Exile politics... go figure.

gansibele

Jejeje nonee, I'd add that some of our more harline denizens would also scoff at that remark and say it was no rift, it was outright treason by Jorgito Mas and Joe Garcia.

It's too bad that after Mas Canosa there wasn't anybody with the leadership to keep it all together. Mas Canosa was able to do things like talk to Clinton or debate Alarcon and nobody dared attack him as soft with Cuba.

nonee moose

gansi:

outright treason? don't force me to re-assess your location on the "line". LOL
and yet, i'm sure those very words were uttered at the CLC organizational meeting.

the sad fact, i suspect, is "el cangrejismo" took over. in honor of the miami heat, i will put it thusly, "all those scorers and only one ball.."

gansi, you seem to know a little bit about this... i don't want you to blow your cover or anything, but how much of the situation was an argument over how to maintain "relevance" in a shifting dynamic?

gansibele

jeje, i've got no cover or much inside info on this... but statements by a certain radio personality and spokesperson back then gave a pretty good picture that support the heat analogy... or en buen cubano: "muchos caciques y pocos indios".

obviously there's a younger faction who understands the old ways will make them irrelevant with the newer exiles and with the power players in cuba after Castro, that's a fact. Mas Canosa was nothing if not pragmatic.

I'm avoiding "lines"... stood in plenty colas in Cuba ;-)

a thought....

Gansibele, how long ago did you get here? You've got some great insight for me about how things are over on "la isla". And, in case I missed it in all these postings, please give me your opinion on the embargo.

gansibele

I grew up and went to college there, left in 92 for Mexico and in 95 came to the US. My immediate family is still there though, unable to leave, and I have frequent contact with them of course, including sending money and anything else they need.

I usually stay away from the embargo debate because I have conflicting opinions about it. I usually say I support it, reluctantly. These are my opinions:

I have witnessed that the opening of tourism and family visits since 1975 has done a lot more to subvert the regime internally, in the hearts and minds of everyday Cubans, that the embargo has ever done. Yes, many may just go looking for the cheap jinetera, rum and cigars and that's despicable. But you have to see it from the point of view of Cubans from my generation, who grew up under constant propaganda that socialist countries were the best, workers in capitalist countries were exploited and exiles were "gusanos"; vermin bent on destroying us. Then we start seeing that tourist were people just like us, not rich people, they had jobs and worked hard at it, and yet they had disposable income to take a vacation, hade better clothes, etc. Then, as much of a tourist apartheid that existed were they kept the tourist confined to hotel areas etc; it's impossible to completely keep contact out, and so we talked to them and realized that not everything was the way it had been told to us. I know it sounds cliche, but think about this: you have never seen a foreign newspaper, never watched a foreign TV show, there's no internet (I'm talking 75 to 85). You don't have any idea that anybody in the US can criticize the President (I remember the first time I saw a caricature of Bush I in the paper, to me it was incredible). So even the "ugly" tourist will tell you "you guys have no idea how much under the boot you are" and so, with all the material wants you have, now you also want the freedom to do and say as you please. And you start connecting the dots. It does cut through the bullshit and opens your eyes.

BTW, it goes both ways. My first wife is American, what you'll call a dyed-in-the-wool liberal, even more so than I am, the kind of person that would have been a useful idiot for Castro and looked at Cuban exiles with distrust. Well, she has been to Cuba twice, she has seen how the situation really is and now you wouldn't find a more anti-Castro person. And she's not the only example. Back when I was in Cuba I saw that over and over, people coming from Europe, leftists, intellectuals, that after a week will criticize the regime, give you the last shirt in their bag, their toothpaste, spend their last dollar to buy you milk and go back with a radically changed view.

And then there are the exiles who came back with "la comunidad" trips. That was another eye opener. Here were the "gusanos", the ones who hated us so much, and yet when you actually talked to long lost uncles and aunts and cousisn, you saw that they were also regular people, they didn't have any hatred for us, just for the regime. And Castro couldn't send a censor to every home, so when they told you stories about how their houses and jobs were taken away, for the first time we got to hear the other side. And they told you how they rebuilt their lives in Miami or New Jersey or wherever, and you admired that. Some made tall stories, sure, but most said "it's hard, it's not easy but if you work hard you can live well, and nobody tells you what school to attend or what job you can have or how often to go to the store". All that immunized you to the propaganda and taught you there were other alternatives.

And of course, there's the reality that we are the biggest embargo breakers. We send money to our families, beyond the limits of US law. We visit them as often as possible. To me family is family and I'm not going to let them starve for politics. I'm firmly against the family-visit restrictions and have denounced them as nothing more than pandering to the hardline Cuban exiles who are citizens and vote, while screwing the more recent arrivals who are not citizens yet. It was an easy way for Bush to pretend he was doing something about Castro. Meanwhile many Republican governors and congressmen are calling for lifting the embargo to pander to their local business communities.

Until 1985 Castro used to make fun of the embargo in speeches, because he had the backing of the Soviets. Then all of a sudden, when things got though, he started blaming all the problems on it. People are not dumb, they know it's just an excuse. They know Cuba can trade with any country in the world and they know Castro has ghost corporations set up in Panama's free trade zone, in the Dutch Antilles and other counties to obtain any American goods. All you have to do is go to a dollars-only store in Cuba to see them. All the talk about how Castro's government can't provide basic needs because of the embargo only fools people on the outside who have Castro sympathies to begin with and the "true believers" inside.

I believe Castro himself doesn't want the embargo lifted. It'll take away his excuse and the 'poor me" argument that wins him so many friends around the world. He will no longer be the proud David defying Goliath. He can no longer say "I can't make political concessions because we are in a war with the biggest super power on Earth". So lifting the embargo will expose him for the petty tyrant he is when no political changes happen. It's no coincidence that everytime there has been entreaties towards a change of policy (Carter in 1980, Clinton in 95) he has answered with moves that made no sense except for a desire to worsen US-Cuba relationships (Mariel boatlift, Brothers to the Rescue murders).

So, why I'm I pro-embargo? Because lifting it won't change much, if anything, for everyday Cubans. Castro just won't be able to buy enough goods to make a dent in Cuba's desperate situation. He's debt ridden and the economy in shambles. What will happen is that Castro and the nomenklature will get a second financial wind, and will benefit directly from more open lines of supply. Plus they will make many allies among the the US corporate and business world, which are often much too pleased to look the other way at human rights and worker's rights violations to make a quick buck.

Second, I don't believe free trade brings political transformations, even if people from outside the Communist Party are allowed in. Look at China. Still a one Party system, still stiffling dissent, still jailing political prisoners, still censoring the internet. Ah, but they are most favored nation and almost everything we buy is "made in China", and many Chinese entrepreneurs are rolling through Beijing and Shangai in Bentleys. So how come we haven't been able to influence political change? Realpolitik doesn't care much for social justice.

And third, because as an American citizen and a taxpayer, I don't want the possibility for politicians to put pressure on the US government to extend credit to Cuba to buy, say, Maine apples or Iowa corn; credit that Castro will happily default on and continue to pile more debt. Because someday the Cuban people will have to pay that debt.

a thought....

Gansibele: I have learned more from reading what you wrote than all of the Ambassador's postings. You have brought up some points I had previously posted, but people chose to ignore (i.e., that Castro doesn't make good on his debts) and not answer. I continue to believe that Castro created his own problems and that we are a convenient scapegoat.

Thanks for your answer, your honesty and your views. More for me to think about!!!

nonee moose

Amen, Gansi, Amen...

"nomenklature"... i say this with all due envy-- you still think in spanish. don't ever change it.

gansibele

"Nomenklature" actually comes from Russian, or at least the English pronunciation of a Russian word. Like "apparatchick" or "politburo", it's another term used to refer to the governing class in communist countries. It has a cold war feel to it. In Spanish is "la nomenclatura".

gansibele

Wikipedia calls it "nomenklatura" - same thing I guess. I always saw it with an "e". In English "nomenclature" always means "list of names" I don't think it has the political connotation, or maybe I'm wrong.

nonee moose

its an idiom that doesn't get used here, that's all. i meant no offense. one of the pitfalls of growing up in Miami, the español can't keep up...

gansibele

No offense taken at all, just explaining... btw, it happens to me as well, I speak English all the time (even though I work in Hispanic advertising) and sometimes I can't remember a word or a phrase in Spanish.

a thought....

Gansibele: When you can't remember its because se te fue el tren or, for John, the train left on you! I love flipping sayings around from English to Spanish...and vice versa....

nonee moose

drinking my hair, drinking a chair, the water-zero, a dead fly, the mad of the movie...

it snores the mango...

gansibele

...or the gonads

a thought....

A personal favorite: send eggs.

a different thought

gansibele

Your post on the Embargo is most thoughtout piece on the subject I've ever read. Changes my views on the subject....

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Working...
Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been saved. Comments are moderated and will not appear until approved by the author. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

Working...

Post a comment

Comments are moderated, and will not appear until the author has approved them.

 
About MiamiHerald.com | Terms of Use & Privacy Statement | Copyright | About the McClatchy Company